OT – An ending and a beginning…

Question:

Hi everyone…first off I want to thank everyone in the group who offered prayers, good thoughts and/or good vibes for my daughter’s well-being.  I believe with all my heart that God hears them all, no matter where they come from or what words are used.  I also firmly believe you all were part of her healing, as well as mine. Yesterday was her last radiation treatment!!!  It’s done – it’s over.  It took almost exactly 6 months to the day of her finding the lump to the day her treatments for the breast cancer was over.  She will be returning to work on the 29th of this month.  She wanted to go back this coming Monday but her boss had hired a temp to take Jen’s place and the 29th was the day they had agreed on her coming back to work, so she has to wait another week. She’s well and she’s happy.  Not only did she have to face the fact that she might die but also at the same time deal with a devastating betrayal by someone she loved with all her heart.  But she was strong…strong in her faith, strong in her will to get better, and strong in her ability to forgive and start over. I wish you could all meet her…she is an amazing young woman.  I look at her and wonder where did she come from?  Where did she learn to live life on its terms, not hers?  Where did she find the courage and strength to keep going on when life handed her more in six months than most people have to deal with in a lifetime?  She handled the betrayal all by herself, not telling anyone in the family or even her best friend for 4 months while going through chemo at the same time… all the while never once a complaint from her lips or a hint of what was going on.  She just put it all in God’s hands and kept looking to him for strength and courage until she was ready to tell her family. Did she cry?  More tears than you can imagine.   Was her heart broken?  In so many pieces I didn’t think she would ever be able to pick them up again. Was her trust in God and her loved one shaken?  Never in God but yes to her loved one.  But with faith, time, and courage, she picked up the pieces and gave this person a chance to prove himself again.  With most people, it would have been a deal breaker. But with counseling they are on the road to recovery.  As she said yesterday, she can honestly say she’s glad everything that happened to her did, because she came out of it a better, stronger person.   And I say "amen" to that.  She may only be 34 but she’s a very mature, strong 34 year old. As for Joe and myself, it has been a hard road to travel but again, with God’s help and the prayers and support of others, we made it through.  As for forgiving Jen’s loved one, well, the way we look at it, if God can forgive us our sins, how can we not forgive others?  Not to say we liked what happened or we weren’t in total shock and needed time to process it all, but we are doing pretty well under the circumstances. I realize not everyone in the group believes as we do, and that’s OK – it doesn’t matter and isn’t important.  What I do know is that you all will be happy to hear the good news about my daughter. Thanks again for all your support and love… All my love, Rita — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<Gently snipped ::I realize not everyone in the group believes as we do, and that’s OK – it ::doesn’t matter and isn’t important.  What I do know is that you all will be ::happy to hear the good news about my daughter. Dear Rita, I`m so glad that Jen is finally finished with her last round of chemo. Jen sounds like an extremely strong and courageous woman. I wish her a very long and healthy life with the man she loves. It`s obvious where she gets her strength from. Good ole Mom (((((Rita & Jen))))) Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Great news on both fronts, Rita. An excellent book for Jen and her husband to read is Aaron Beck’s "Love Is Never Enough", about how people miscommunicate and how they can resolve conflicts, and solve relationship problems with cognitive principles or cognitive therapy. Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone…first off I want to thank everyone in the group who offered prayers, good thoughts and/or good vibes for my daughter’s well-being.  I believe with all my heart that God hears them all, no matter where they come from or what words are used.  I also firmly believe you all were part of her healing, as well as mine. Yesterday was her last radiation treatment!!!  It’s done – it’s over.  It took almost exactly 6 months to the day of her finding the lump to the day her treatments for the breast cancer was over.  She will be returning to work on the 29th of this month.  She wanted to go back this coming Monday but her boss had hired a temp to take Jen’s place and the 29th was the day they had agreed on her coming back to work, so she has to wait another week. She’s well and she’s happy.  Not only did she have to face the fact that she might die but also at the same time deal with a devastating betrayal by someone she loved with all her heart.  But she was strong…strong in her faith, strong in her will to get better, and strong in her ability to forgive and start over. I wish you could all meet her…she is an amazing young woman.  I look at her and wonder where did she come from?  Where did she learn to live life on its terms, not hers?  Where did she find the courage and strength to keep going on when life handed her more in six months than most people have to deal with in a lifetime?  She handled the betrayal all by herself, not telling anyone in the family or even her best friend for 4 months while going through chemo at the same time… all the while never once a complaint from her lips or a hint of what was going on.  She just put it all in God’s hands and kept looking to him for strength and courage until she was ready to tell her family. Did she cry?  More tears than you can imagine.   Was her heart broken?  In so many pieces I didn’t think she would ever be able to pick them up again. Was her trust in God and her loved one shaken?  Never in God but yes to her loved one.  But with faith, time, and courage, she picked up the pieces and gave this person a chance to prove himself again.  With most people, it would have been a deal breaker. But with counseling they are on the road to recovery.  As she said yesterday, she can honestly say she’s glad everything that happened to her did, because she came out of it a better, stronger person.   And I say "amen" to that.  She may only be 34 but she’s a very mature, strong 34 year old. As for Joe and myself, it has been a hard road to travel but again, with God’s help and the prayers and support of others, we made it through.  As for forgiving Jen’s loved one, well, the way we look at it, if God can forgive us our sins, how can we not forgive others?  Not to say we liked what happened or we weren’t in total shock and needed time to process it all, but we are doing pretty well under the circumstances. I realize not everyone in the group believes as we do, and that’s OK – it doesn’t matter and isn’t important.  What I do know is that you all will be happy to hear the good news about my daughter. Thanks again for all your support and love… All my love, Rita — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi everyone…first off I want to thank everyone in the group who offered prayers, good thoughts and/or good vibes for my daughter’s well-being.  I believe with all my heart that God hears them all, no matter where they come from or what words are used.  I also firmly believe you all were part of her healing, as well as mine. Yesterday was her last radiation treatment!!!  It’s done – it’s over.

*Fantastic* news! I’m so happy for all of you. Of course she is an amazing woman, she is *your* daughter so she learned from the best. (((Rita))) Philip   It – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – took almost exactly 6 months to the day of her finding the lump to the day her treatments for the breast cancer was over.  She will be returning to work on the 29th of this month.  She wanted to go back this coming Monday but her boss had hired a temp to take Jen’s place and the 29th was the day they had agreed on her coming back to work, so she has to wait another week. She’s well and she’s happy.  Not only did she have to face the fact that she might die but also at the same time deal with a devastating betrayal by someone she loved with all her heart.  But she was strong…strong in her faith, strong in her will to get better, and strong in her ability to forgive and start over. I wish you could all meet her…she is an amazing young woman.  I look at her and wonder where did she come from?  Where did she learn to live life on its terms, not hers?  Where did she find the courage and strength to keep going on when life handed her more in six months than most people have to deal with in a lifetime?  She handled the betrayal all by herself, not telling anyone in the family or even her best friend for 4 months while going through chemo at the same time… all the while never once a complaint from her lips or a hint of what was going on.  She just put it all in God’s hands and kept looking to him for strength and courage until she was ready to tell her family. Did she cry?  More tears than you can imagine.   Was her heart broken?  In so many pieces I didn’t think she would ever be able to pick them up again. Was her trust in God and her loved one shaken?  Never in God but yes to her loved one.  But with faith, time, and courage, she picked up the pieces and gave this person a chance to prove himself again.  With most people, it would have been a deal breaker. But with counseling they are on the road to recovery.  As she said yesterday, she can honestly say she’s glad everything that happened to her did, because she came out of it a better, stronger person.   And I say "amen" to that.  She may only be 34 but she’s a very mature, strong 34 year old. As for Joe and myself, it has been a hard road to travel but again, with God’s help and the prayers and support of others, we made it through.  As for forgiving Jen’s loved one, well, the way we look at it, if God can forgive us our sins, how can we not forgive others?  Not to say we liked what happened or we weren’t in total shock and needed time to process it all, but we are doing pretty well under the circumstances. I realize not everyone in the group believes as we do, and that’s OK – it doesn’t matter and isn’t important.  What I do know is that you all will be happy to hear the good news about my daughter. Thanks again for all your support and love… All my love, Rita

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

((((((Rita)))))) I am so happy to hear this for Jen.  She has been so strong throughout this ordeal and I can imagine how relieved you and Joe are also. I’m sorry to hear about the problems she has gone through with her loved one and yet glad to know they are in counseling.  I wish them much success… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone…first off I want to thank everyone in the group who offered prayers, good thoughts and/or good vibes for my daughter’s well-being.  I believe with all my heart that God hears them all, no matter where they come from or what words are used.  I also firmly believe you all were part of her healing, as well as mine. Yesterday was her last radiation treatment!!!  It’s done – it’s over.  It took almost exactly 6 months to the day of her finding the lump to the day her treatments for the breast cancer was over.  She will be returning to work on the 29th of this month.  She wanted to go back this coming Monday but her boss had hired a temp to take Jen’s place and the 29th was the day they had agreed on her coming back to work, so she has to wait another week. She’s well and she’s happy.  Not only did she have to face the fact that she might die but also at the same time deal with a devastating betrayal by someone she loved with all her heart.  But she was strong…strong in her faith, strong in her will to get better, and strong in her ability to forgive and start over. I wish you could all meet her…she is an amazing young woman.  I look at her and wonder where did she come from?  Where did she learn to live life on its terms, not hers?  Where did she find the courage and strength to keep going on when life handed her more in six months than most people have to deal with in a lifetime?  She handled the betrayal all by herself, not telling anyone in the family or even her best friend for 4 months while going through chemo at the same time… all the while never once a complaint from her lips or a hint of what was going on.  She just put it all in God’s hands and kept looking to him for strength and courage until she was ready to tell her family. Did she cry?  More tears than you can imagine.   Was her heart broken?  In so many pieces I didn’t think she would ever be able to pick them up again. Was her trust in God and her loved one shaken?  Never in God but yes to her loved one.  But with faith, time, and courage, she picked up the pieces and gave this person a chance to prove himself again.  With most people, it would have been a deal breaker. But with counseling they are on the road to recovery.  As she said yesterday, she can honestly say she’s glad everything that happened to her did, because she came out of it a better, stronger person.   And I say "amen" to that.  She may only be 34 but she’s a very mature, strong 34 year old. As for Joe and myself, it has been a hard road to travel but again, with God’s help and the prayers and support of others, we made it through.  As for forgiving Jen’s loved one, well, the way we look at it, if God can forgive us our sins, how can we not forgive others?  Not to say we liked what happened or we weren’t in total shock and needed time to process it all, but we are doing pretty well under the circumstances. I realize not everyone in the group believes as we do, and that’s OK – it doesn’t matter and isn’t important.  What I do know is that you all will be happy to hear the good news about my daughter. Thanks again for all your support and love… All my love, Rita — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone…first off I want to thank everyone in the group who offered prayers, good thoughts and/or good vibes for my daughter’s well-being.  I believe with all my heart that God hears them all, no matter where they come from or what words are used.  I also firmly believe you all were part of her healing, as well as mine. Yesterday was her last radiation treatment!!!  It’s done – it’s over.  It took almost exactly 6 months to the day of her finding the lump to the day her treatments for the breast cancer was over.  She will be returning to work on the 29th of this month.  She wanted to go back this coming Monday but her boss had hired a temp to take Jen’s place and the 29th was the day they had agreed on her coming back to work, so she has to wait another week. She’s well and she’s happy.  Not only did she have to face the fact that she might die but also at the same time deal with a devastating betrayal by someone she loved with all her heart.  But she was strong…strong in her faith, strong in her will to get better, and strong in her ability to forgive and start over. I wish you could all meet her…she is an amazing young woman.  I look at her and wonder where did she come from?  Where did she learn to live life on its terms, not hers?  Where did she find the courage and strength to keep going on when life handed her more in six months than most people have to deal with in a lifetime?  She handled the betrayal all by herself, not telling anyone in the family or even her best friend for 4 months while going through chemo at the same time… all the while never once a complaint from her lips or a hint of what was going on.  She just put it all in God’s hands and kept looking to him for strength and courage until she was ready to tell her family. Did she cry?  More tears than you can imagine.   Was her heart broken?  In so many pieces I didn’t think she would ever be able to pick them up again. Was her trust in God and her loved one shaken?  Never in God but yes to her loved one.  But with faith, time, and courage, she picked up the pieces and gave this person a chance to prove himself again.  With most people, it would have been a deal breaker. But with counseling they are on the road to recovery.  As she said yesterday, she can honestly say she’s glad everything that happened to her did, because she came out of it a better, stronger person.   And I say "amen" to that.  She may only be 34 but she’s a very mature, strong 34 year old. As for Joe and myself, it has been a hard road to travel but again, with God’s help and the prayers and support of others, we made it through.  As for forgiving Jen’s loved one, well, the way we look at it, if God can forgive us our sins, how can we not forgive others?  Not to say we liked what happened or we weren’t in total shock and needed time to process it all, but we are doing pretty well under the circumstances. I realize not everyone in the group believes as we do, and that’s OK – it doesn’t matter and isn’t important.  What I do know is that you all will be happy to hear the good news about my daughter. Thanks again for all your support and love… All my love, Rita

Dear Rita, What a wonderful post! I am so glad that Jen is now through all her treatment. I watched my very young nephew go through chemo and I understand too well the difficulties that it brings with it. I’m so glad that she is working on her relationship. It’s easier to just give up but obviously Jen has an amazing strength within her. Forgiveness is not an easy one for many people. She shows great strength of character. Know that I am very happy for you and your family Rita. You are one very special lady! Love from Caz x — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Rita, I’m so very glad this is all over for Jen.  What a remarkable woman she is!  I don’t think I could’ve handled all that she did.  I’m so glad her marriage is on the road to recovery as well as her health.  Some times it’s so hard to put everything in God’s hands and leave it there.  My best to Jen and hope all stays well with her.  {{{{{{{Rita & Jen}}}}}}} Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone…first off I want to thank everyone in the group who offered prayers, good thoughts and/or good vibes for my daughter’s well-being.  I believe with all my heart that God hears them all, no matter where they come from or what words are used.  I also firmly believe you all were part of her healing, as well as mine. Yesterday was her last radiation treatment!!!  It’s done – it’s over.  It took almost exactly 6 months to the day of her finding the lump to the day her treatments for the breast cancer was over.  She will be returning to work on the 29th of this month.  She wanted to go back this coming Monday but her boss had hired a temp to take Jen’s place and the 29th was the day they had agreed on her coming back to work, so she has to wait another week. She’s well and she’s happy.  Not only did she have to face the fact that she might die but also at the same time deal with a devastating betrayal by someone she loved with all her heart.  But she was strong…strong in her faith, strong in her will to get better, and strong in her ability to forgive and start over. I wish you could all meet her…she is an amazing young woman.  I look at her and wonder where did she come from?  Where did she learn to live life on its terms, not hers?  Where did she find the courage and strength to keep going on when life handed her more in six months than most people have to deal with in a lifetime?  She handled the betrayal all by herself, not telling anyone in the family or even her best friend for 4 months while going through chemo at the same time… all the while never once a complaint from her lips or a hint of what was going on.  She just put it all in God’s hands and kept looking to him for strength and courage until she was ready to tell her family. Did she cry?  More tears than you can imagine.   Was her heart broken?  In so many pieces I didn’t think she would ever be able to pick them up again. Was her trust in God and her loved one shaken?  Never in God but yes to her loved one.  But with faith, time, and courage, she picked up the pieces and gave this person a chance to prove himself again.  With most people, it would have been a deal breaker. But with counseling they are on the road to recovery.  As she said yesterday, she can honestly say she’s glad everything that happened to her did, because she came out of it a better, stronger person.   And I say "amen" to that.  She may only be 34 but she’s a very mature, strong 34 year old. As for Joe and myself, it has been a hard road to travel but again, with God’s help and the prayers and support of others, we made it through.  As for forgiving Jen’s loved one, well, the way we look at it, if God can forgive us our sins, how can we not forgive others?  Not to say we liked what happened or we weren’t in total shock and needed time to process it all, but we are doing pretty well under the circumstances. I realize not everyone in the group believes as we do, and that’s OK – it doesn’t matter and isn’t important.  What I do know is that you all will be happy to hear the good news about my daughter. Thanks again for all your support and love… All my love, Rita

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hard Choices

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have DCIS in my right breast. I’ve had a lumpectomy which still had DCIS in the margins. A 2nd operation to get a clean margin didn’t. There were still DCIS cells there. I’m now trying to get info on reconstructive surgery so I can decide between that and a 3rd attempt to get a clean margin. I’d have radiation if a clean margin were obtained. I’ve been told I’m a candidate for a Skin-Saving Mastectomy but don’t know what to expect. Any information would be appreciated. I know I’m lucky enough to be able to make a decision, but it’s still hard to do, and very frustrating. Myra

Hi, Myra, I had bilateral mastectomies, radiation on one side.   The mastectomy surgery itself is an easy one.  The various forms of reconstruction add difficulty & recovery time.  For many, though, the loss of a breast is unthinkable, so reconstruction is a requirement for them. I am one (of quite few, perhaps?) who is not especially bothered by not having breasts.  (Of course, I really mean I’d rather not have had the breast cancer, but having had it, I’m satisfied with the mastectomies as part of treatment!) For me, the lowered odds of recurrence were an important factor, along with the relative ease of detecting local recurrence as compared with detection in a reconstructed breast.  I also didn’t want to assume additional medical risk (more difficult/risky surgery, possible complications from implants or tissue necrosis). Further, many reconstruction approaches reduce one’s physical capability at least temporarily, by surgical involvement of muscle tissue.  I’d rather be strong than look good, if it comes down to that, and even if the loss of strength can be mitigated by physical therapy. Sometimes I wear prostheses (work, dress-up occasions), sometimes I don’t (most of my private life).  When I don’t, not only do people not stare, but they often don’t notice.  (A number of times, I’ve been in conversation with someone, mentioned I had breast cancer, and had them register surprise . . . even as I was standing in front of them wearing a t-shirt, completely flat (or even a little concave)! For context — since folks sometime say things like "but if you were younger . . . or single?" — I’m 49, 44 when I made the decision, and single (widow).  I think my (late) spouse would’ve been fine with it, too, considering the alternatives. I know this is a very tough, and a very personal decision.  I don’t mean to criticize others who may choose differently from me — one needs to be guided by ones own values. Good luck making the tough decision! Ann T. Remove ‘dontsendspam’ from address to rely by email

Response:

I have DCIS in my right breast. I’ve had a lumpectomy which still had DCIS in the margins. A 2nd operation to get a clean margin didn’t. There were still DCIS cells there. I’m now trying to get info on reconstructive surgery so I can decide between that and a 3rd attempt to get a clean margin. I’d have radiation if a clean margin were obtained. I’ve been told I’m a candidate for a Skin-Saving Mastectomy but don’t know what to expect. Any information would be appreciated. I know I’m lucky enough to be able to make a decision, but it’s still hard to do, and very frustrating. Myra

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have DCIS in my right breast. I’ve had a lumpectomy which still had DCIS in the margins. A 2nd operation to get a clean margin didn’t. There were still DCIS cells there. I’m now trying to get info on reconstructive surgery so I can decide between that and a 3rd attempt to get a clean margin. I’d have radiation if a clean margin were obtained. I’ve been told I’m a candidate for a Skin-Saving Mastectomy but don’t know what to expect. Any information would be appreciated. I know I’m lucky enough to be able to make a decision, but it’s still hard to do, and very frustrating. Myra

Are you really saying you want to choose between removing the cancer and   reconstructing the breast?  Or do I misunderstand the question?  Is the choice between mastectomy and a 3rd excision?  I presume it must be. I think if two excisions fail to get clean margins it would be usual to   go for a mastectomy next.  That’s what my mum had for a stage I. There are advantages to mastectomy, it is "cutting along the dotted lines" so the healing, the scar and maybe the reconstruction, are simpler and radiation can often be safely omitted.  The risk of recurrence is less: long term outcomes are about the same, but lumpectomies more often need further surgery to remove local recurrences.  And you can wear a prosthesis instead of (or while you consider) reconstruction.  Simultaneous ?-ectomy and reconstruction is pretty heavy surgery with long recovery. I believe that the preference for the more difficult surgeries, ie lumpectomy or immediate reconstruction is partly due to a perfectly natural denial of the loss of part of your body.  It is I know very difficult to accept permanent changes to your body image, and very much easier to see this as a wound which will heal and get back to "normal", with just a scar.  It isn’t and it won’t.  Whatever you chose this is a permanent change to your body and whatever you do to restore your ‘public’ image is cosmetic.  It leads to better clinical decisions, mental health, and long term outcomes if you can manage to come to terms with this difficult fact early on. Tim Jackson

Response:

For me having  a mastectomy was not as physically challenging as I thought it would be, I had a skin sparing mastectomy and Tram reconstruction. I was up and about several days later and driving in 2 weeks. Are you planning reconstruction? http://www.breastcancer.org/tre_surg_skinsparing.html What were the choices your team present to you? Sorry you have to be here, but the people here are  tremendous in supporting one another.

Response:

You really have a tough decision and I wouldn’t presume to tell you what to do.  I had a second resection and was not unhappy at surgeon for margins still involved as I know he was trying to save as much of me as possible. Do you know if the cancer was estrogen related? One thought, if you go for 3rd and it is clear,  you might want to ask about MammoSite radiation rather than the 30 treatments.  Dr. would have to decide if you are a candidate for this considering size of tissue removed, etc.  I was very pleased to be able to have had this. PD

Response:

O yes.  I didn’t have to have radiation or chemo. I chose Arimidex after readng about it compared to Tamoxifen(sp?) It sounded like Arimidex was a better choice for me.

Response:

I had a mastctomy last year end of March with an expander put in immedietly. The dr. said I wouldn’t tlike the results of a lumpectomy as I had a large lump in the center of a small breast. Also I had been told of too many who had lumpectomies that later had to have mastectomies anyway. The expander was gradually filled and in Oct. was replaced with a saline filled form. The reconstruction is a poor substitute for a breast but much better (to me) than nothing. This is a very personal choice that only the woman can decide. Good luck.

Response:

Has anyone else in USA had these experiences?

Question:

Now that there’s the internet, & I can get more information, I might be moving to a better area, as soon as I can get an investigation into the crimes & corruption here, the extreme levels of harm done, ….. & get some $$$-settlements.

So, your name and your game are the same–SUE.   Nice way to make a living. Eva

Response:

Over all, the medical care I have received in California and in Texas has been very good, and sometimes, outstanding. An early diagnosis by a competent specialist, of colon cancer, saved my life, and I did not require chemo after surgery. That was 25 years ago. When I went into shock following a hysterectomy, the doctors and staff again saved my life, and I made a complete recovery, after a blood transfusion. A year ago, an early diagnosis of breast cancer was made, and I had options regarding surgery and treatment. I made all my own choices, and though chemo was recommended, I decided that it was not right for me. Radiation, however, was a very positive experience. I have had a few incompetent doctors along the way. When I belonged to an HMO, I wrote letters to the doctors and the grievance committee to obtain the treatment I needed, and filed complaints against doctors I felt were incompetent. I simply presented the facts in a logical fashion, and attached supporting documents to prove my position. They responded favorably. Joan Hi Joan, I’m glad that you had good experiences, & didn’t get badly harmed, when you sought medical care. Even though I did things correctly, over & over, & for many years, ….. I did Not have good experiences when I sought medical care for injuries & cancer. Or earlier than that, when I sought counseling for severe & ongoing birth-family abuse. For the most part, I experienced the worst of the medical community & industry here, ….. & experienced doctors trying to cover up for each other, trying to do more & more harm, trying "to bury their mistakes" & crimes. So we don’t have the good experiences in common. Also, didn’t you say you were in West Texas? I’m in the East Texas, West Louisiana area. They’re two very different worlds. I’ve also been told, that coastal Texas is very different from both East & West Texas. I visited my uncle in West Texas once, Ozona I believe. East Texas is a very humid, green, creepy-crawly jungle. I was shocked at how dry & barren West Texas was, …. the big spiders, the herds of sheep, the windmills, ….. & that they used small airplanes to get around the ranch. In East Texas, there’d basically be no clear space to land in an emergency, unless a farmer/rancher kept a field bush-hogged & cleared. Then, if it had just rained on it, the ground probably wouldn’t be fit or firm enough to land on. Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions Susan, I am very sorry for the bad experiences you have had in your life.  I hope you will finally get the care and help you need now. I live in El Paso, which is very much like living in Mexico.  Everyone here speaks Spanish, and all my neighbors are Mexican.  The economy is poor, the land is harsh and dry, and the summers unbearably hot.  There is a shortage of doctors here, so it is difficult to find a good doctor.  I was just lucky. I do believe I made the right decision in not taking chemo.  I felt that at my age, 75, it would do much more harm than good. Best Wishes, Joan

Response:

So, your name and your game are the same–SUE.

Need a hug or two

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

No, you NEED to tell us when you have those fears because sometimes, it helps to see it in black and white. Makes it a little more handleable somehow. (((((((hugs))))))

Response:

I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29.

<snipped Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Your friends here would be upset if you didn’t give them the opportunity to support you through this very difficult time. Purrs and healing thoughts coming your way from the furry ones and myself. — Shirley http://community.webshots.com/user/shirleycatuk

Response:

Much love and healing purrs to you Hon!  Keep posting–it helps to get it out and not be so large or jumbled inside.  A friend of mine calls this ‘knitting’ things together. If I may–I would like to suggests at least two authors for you:  Louise Haye and Carolyn Myss.  Wonderful books they have on self-healing with remarkable results.  I have seen, and experienced, this first hand to know that it is genuine.  I don’t mean the fu-fu stuff when I suggest this.

Hugs and purrs — and I have some very serious medical texts on the shelf that have chapters on how visualization, self-healing, etc., can cause beneficial changes in the immune system. Another way of looking at the situation is that buying time can truly be important, either because a new treatment becomes available, or the body uses some of its own healing methods.  For example, I had a quadruple heart bypass. Within six months of the surgery, two of the bypass grafts stopped up, and I was again having angina. As it happened, I was a member of a health maintenance organization that refused to work up the problem — it wasn’t obvious without additional tests that the vessels had closed. I found a research program at the National Institutes of Health, where I’ve been a volunteer in mostly diagnostic cardiac methods for over ten years. By then, my heart ejection fraction, a measure of pumping efficiency, had dropped to around 35%, just above where congestive heart failure starts. My heart was enlarging in a not-good way. They confirmed the diagnosis, but then got very aggressive on using drugs to relieve symptoms, and, indeed, I am on an exceptionally long list. As they relieved symptoms, they also gave some previously unknown good genetics time to work.  My bad genetics had caused coronary artery disease in my thirties. I was kept healthy long enough for my heart to "recollateralize itself", where normally microscopic blood vessels in the heart muscle enlarged, essentially a do-it-yourself bypass. The heart enlargement went back to normal, and my last ejection fraction, about a year ago, was 65% — the lower edge of the athletically conditioned range. The rate of introduction of new and effective cancer treatments is shocking even to experienced scientists. Some of the newer breast cancer treatment studies are now beginning not to talk remission, but cure. Previously quickly lethal childhood leukemias have a 70% or better complete cure rate.   One bone tumor type, osteogenic sarcoma, tends to be a disease of adolescents or young adults. It is fairly distinctive on X-ray.  I’ve read some poignant autobiographies of physicians in the 1930s and 1940s diagnosing it in a colleague, and, while the words were never said out loud, prescribing a supply of narcotics that would be lethal if taken at the same time.   Treatment did improve somewhat, so that there was a chance with immediate amputation, far above the tumor. Osteogenic sarcoma near the ankle might call for mid-thigh amputation. Today, it’s often curable, controllable quickly, and may need no surgery at all. This kind of progress is not science fiction. There are no guarantees, but there is every reason to believe that improved treatments will be available to you in the time you have gained. Getting involved in research programs is often a good idea.

Response:

[[[[[[[[[[Hugs sweety]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] You will get through this. There will be days when you’re not thrilled about it, but one day you will be healthy again. Purrs Suz&Spicey

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

GREAT big hugs, Tweed.  I know it’s scary facing  this.  I certainly would be scared.  You probably wish you could hide under the bed, or run away from it all.  Alas these things must be faced and dealt with before they have a chance to get any worse. Early treatment of possible cancers is the best key to surviving it.  You know we’re all on your side, hugging and purring mightily for a good ultimate outcome. Courage! It’s still a better diagnosis than the one you feared you’d get, right?  You’ll beat this, I know you will. It’s important to keep the good endorphins flowing. {{{Hugs, Tweed}}} Melissa

Response:

I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend.

Hugs, purrs and soothing, healing thoughts will continue to come your way as long as they are needed. We’ll cheer about the good stuff AND lend support through the bad stuff, so don’t be concerned about posting your thoughts/fears/worries.  We care.  That’s why we’re here. — Elise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves)

Response:

I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend.

Aww, hugs Tweed. I know telling you not to worry is going to about the same as telling the sun not to rise in the morning, but we’re praying and purring for you – that *has* to have some sort of positive effect. Yowie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

(((((Tweed))))) There are never words, in any language, to say what someone means.  I’m very bad at it.  I know that you do not know me, but for some reason I feel a distinct, almost need, to reach out to you. You cannot know how I feel, just as I cannot know how you feel.  You are probably wondering what this weird idiot is doing, and you would not be alone in doing so.  I am weird, and sometimes I’m just a little too open, emotionally, for my own good. It has everything to do with cats, since that is how we have all found each other. Know that you are in my prayers (songs), that you have been since I first heard of the possibilities for you.  I do not know why, but it is important, and not just important to me.  You are and shall remain in my heart. Hvse komate rakvwapketv (sun will rise again), Hvresse komate rakvwapketv (moon will rise again).  Pvnne mucvsat hvtvm fvcke hesaketv (the valley is full of life), Nokuse vcayecetv ece estofis (Bear preserve/protect you always). Smokie Darling (Annie) – who thought you might like to know what she was saying for a change.  Lame as it is, it is one of my favorite songs.

Response:

Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does.

Please don’t hesitate to post about how you feel. We all want to help you get over this. {{{Tweed}}} — Marina, Frank and Miranda. In loving memory of Nikki. marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

Cornish hugs (they’re big ones) duly sent from us lot Purrs too! Gordon, Bandit, Snowball & Raki "Christina Websell" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend.

Response:

I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend.

(((((((((((((((Christina))))))))))))) Purrs that you’ll receive good news on the 29th — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy and Little Bit Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

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Of course!  Many hugs and purrs coming up.  And never be afraid to ask, it’s not depressing to read about how you’re doing.  I’m interested and concerned. — Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." — Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

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Hugs and purrs from me and my purrsday cat Rusty. He just turned 11 and we have our 10th anniversary today. You will have many good years with Kitty & Boyfriend. Winnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Response:

Not depressing for us at all, Tweed. We like to know what is going on with you, so post away. We are always including you in our prayers. Jazz & his mama — Irulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Response:

Much love and healing purrs to you Hon!  Keep posting–it helps to get it out and not be so large or jumbled inside.  A friend of mine calls this ‘knitting’ things together. If I may–I would like to suggests at least two authors for you:  Louise Haye and Carolyn Myss.  Wonderful books they have on self-healing with remarkable results.  I have seen, and experienced, this first hand to know that it is genuine.  I don’t mean the fu-fu stuff when I suggest this. Sincerely, Jen {{{{{Tweed}}}}} It matters to us because You matter to us and you should never hesitate to ask for a purr or a hug when you feel that you need one. My five furry babies are sending lots of warm, rumbly purrs for you and for a good prognosis. They also send gentle headbutts (except for Barnabus who hasn’t learned that headbutts should be gentle and he’ll move your whole body with his headbutts).  I’m sending best wishes and hugs. Julie I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] Tweed

– Message posted via CatKB.com http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-anecdotes/200506/1

Response:

I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

You’ve got hugs from me and purrs from Persia!  Now get your chin up; you said you never win raffles but I think you’re past due and this is one you’re going to win Jill

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

when you go in. Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

Depressing?  Not at all! I’d rather read this now, when I can send prayers and happy thoughts your way, then read it when I’m in a down mood and can’t even get myself out of the hole.  Don’t feel bad about posting your news to us. We are a community and we take care of each other. We are THERE to support you!  (when KFC and BF can’t, that is) Jane – owned and operated by Princess Rita – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

(((((((((Christina)))))))))))  Revving up the purrs. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Hugs and purrs, the Song Thrush is still singing for you. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

Response:

Many hugs, purrs, and positive thoughts!  I’m not really sure what that stuff means but I hope the news is good at the hospital appointment. Debbie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

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Huggs and purrs on the way. Ann — read Sam’s blog at http://kittens-3.blogspot.com/ see pictures of Sam at http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ann791/my_photos

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Response:

On 2005-06-17, Christina Websell penned: I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Well, I for one don’t at all mind getting updates, good or bad.  I can’t imagine how scary this must be for you! *hug* — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

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{{{{{Tweed}}}}} It matters to us because You matter to us and you should never hesitate to ask for a purr or a hug when you feel that you need one. My five furry babies are sending lots of warm, rumbly purrs for you and for a good prognosis. They also send gentle headbutts (except for Barnabus who hasn’t learned that headbutts should be gentle and he’ll move your whole body with his headbutts).  I’m sending best wishes and hugs. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that the 70 per cent chance of my tumour being benign would mean it would apply to me, as I was trying hard to be positive. However.  I got the 10% borderline, which is much better than the other 20% definitely malignant, I know. It’s still scary.  I won’t know what it all really means until I go to the hospital on June 29. Sometimes I hesitate to post things such as this because it’s depressing for you all to read when your life is happy and I really don’t want to spoil it. I won’t say any more except if anyone feels they could post a few hugs to get me through until the hospital appointment, it might help.  It always does. It has nothing to do with cats. sorry, except it’s important that I live for a long time for Kitty & Boyfriend. Tweed

Response:

Exercise cut return of breast cancer by half

Question:

I read that in my local paper, it is interesting, I have been much more physically active since my diagnosis. —

http://www.healthsentinel.com/news.php?event=news_print_list_item&id=862 ANDR

Rates of recurrence by year

Question:

I’ve been trawling through various web sites and news groups in search of some statistics on recurrence rates by year.  Somewhere I have had it put in my head that the first 2 years is the real danger period for recurrence and that rates after that signifigantly decrease to 5 years, then remain more or less flat until 10 years, then gradually tail off. However, I cannot find any paper or other research that shows this, and am beginning to doubt that what I remember is, in fact, true.  Does anyone here have a pointer to a reliable source that shows recurrence rates by year? Thanks in advance

If you have a specific diagnosis you’re checking the stats for, you might find some answers via the "Treatment Decision Tools for Breast Cancer" at the American Cancer Society site (breast cancer page is http://www.cancer.org/docroot/LRN/LRN_0.asp?dt=5 , and the link is in the middle of the page. One of the studies in my "outcomes tool" report gave the following probabilities for *freedom from* recurrence by year with two different treatment strategies. Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 84    65    53    48    44    42    40    37    36    34 Radiation and Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 92    78    69    63    58    55    54    52    50    48 This is based on "Overgaard, M.D., Marie et al. 1997, Postoperative Radiotherapy in High-Risk Premenopausal Women with Breast Cancer Who Receive Adjuvant Chemotherapy, The New England Journal of Medicine. 337: 949-955". Before anyone panics, please note that these are stats for certain classes of high-risk cases, and they’re stats about *recurrence*. Survival stats are also in the report, and are several percentage points higher, since many recurrences are local/new primary, which can be pretty treatable. FWIW, Ann T.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been trawling through various web sites and news groups in search of some statistics on recurrence rates by year.  Somewhere I have had it put in my head that the first 2 years is the real danger period for recurrence and that rates after that signifigantly decrease to 5 years, then remain more or less flat until 10 years, then gradually tail off. However, I cannot find any paper or other research that shows this, and am beginning to doubt that what I remember is, in fact, true.  Does anyone here have a pointer to a reliable source that shows recurrence rates by year? Thanks in advance If you have a specific diagnosis you’re checking the stats for, you might find some answers via the "Treatment Decision Tools for Breast Cancer" at the American Cancer Society site (breast cancer page is http://www.cancer.org/docroot/LRN/LRN_0.asp?dt=5 , and the link is in the middle of the page. One of the studies in my "outcomes tool" report gave the following probabilities for *freedom from* recurrence by year with two different treatment strategies. Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 84    65    53    48    44    42    40    37    36    34 Radiation and Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 92    78    69    63    58    55    54    52    50    48 This is based on "Overgaard, M.D., Marie et al. 1997, Postoperative Radiotherapy in High-Risk Premenopausal Women with Breast Cancer Who Receive Adjuvant Chemotherapy, The New England Journal of Medicine. 337: 949-955". Before anyone panics, please note that these are stats for certain classes of high-risk cases, and they’re stats about *recurrence*. Survival stats are also in the report, and are several percentage points higher, since many recurrences are local/new primary, which can be pretty treatable. FWIW, Ann T.

Thanks Ann for the statistics but I won’t show them to my daughter.  I don’t want her to dwell on the probabilities.  She still gets the shots to get her menapausal and frequent check-ups and blood draws. (She had the invasive ductal positive her2neu.) She did go ahead with the chemo and radiation after surgery. We have seen first hand what happens as the years go by and the reacurrence that has happened to family members. SO MANY in our family!  My niece Marilyn’s funeral Wednesday. My motto is to "live, live, live, until we die" My daughter and I have been in Florida where she has chosen to live.  We rented a condo with many amenities, just a few minutes from the beach.  She will work there and I will also spend much time there with her – especially in the winter. We had a lot of fun looking for a place, met Pete Rose, ate out, enjoyed the beach. Each good day a "present".  Hated to come back to rainy Ohio to take care of things here. Statistics are just that and we will never know where we fit while on our journey.  I guess I don’t want to know the specifics.  Might ruin my day at the beach. (grin) eveline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I was thinking the same thing, Dr. Smiley has been right so far, so I would keep the faith.

Yup.  He’s done well so far and faith is a lot higher than it was last week.  Thanks, Chris  :-* — allan we don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are. — Anais Nin

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Allan give your wife a hug for all of us, Dr Smiley ( I still get a kick out of that name) will take good care of her. Alex

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I was thinking the same thing, Dr. Smiley has been right so far, so I would keep the faith. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Allan give your wife a hug for all of us, Dr Smiley ( I still get a kick out of that name) will take good care of her. Alex

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and when the nasties start growing again I panic for a bit and then settle down and do what needs to be done, I think.  Right now I’m still in the ‘oh, crap’ mode.

Easy there, cowboy. Tim

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Easy there, cowboy.

Thanks, Tim.  I’ll have my feet on the ground in a bit. cheers – — allan we don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are. — Anais Nin

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Hang in there and enjoy the long weekend. I hope the panic goes away soon. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 84    65    53    48    44    42    40    37    36    34 Radiation and Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 92    78    69    63    58    55    54    52    50    48 Interesting numbers  ;-) On a side note (and mainly because I didn’t want to start a new thread) it looks like Deborah and I are back in the fight and about to do Round 3 with the beast. Test results show her CA15-3 is rising even though she’s on Herceptin now.  Her last bone scan showed a hot spot on her spine (but an MRI revealed it was just degenerative disk disease) but the last pile of tests show her markers are on the way up and a touch of emphysema that we’ve never seen in a chest x-ray.  Deborah has been a nonsmoker for almost 20 years, so WTF? Anyway, her markers always run low (I don’t think they’ve ever been above 60) but have increased from 27 to 47 in the last four weeks.  The part that’s making me nervous is that her lungs and abdomen are clear – and knowing how I tend to panic at stuff like this and because she’s doing Herceptin it’s about everything I can do to keep from demanding a skull CT.  No sense looking for trouble when she’s still asymptomatic, though.  I’ll calm down in a few days, I think  ;-) Anyway, Dr. Smiley wants to wait until July 6 to make a decision, but has told her if her markers continue to rise that it’ll be time to start chemo again.  He’s recommending that we try adding Navelbine to the Herceptin again since the combination’s worked well before.  I’m a little skeptical because it’s the Herceptin that’s been keeping her alive all this time and now there’s some question whether it’s still effective.  In preparation for this stuff she’s doing a bone density test and a MUGA scan and I’m looking for a Lapatinib trial just in case.  I haven’t mentioned this to Deborah yet, though  ;-) Y’all have known me for almost six years – and when the nasties start growing again I panic for a bit and then settle down and do what needs to be done, I think.  Right now I’m still in the ‘oh, crap’ mode. Anyway, Dr, Smiley gave Deborah 6-12 months in August, 1999 – almost six years ago.  We’ve beaten the odds and then some and I think we can do it for awhile more. Anyway, I’ll know a lot more on July 6. hugs to all –

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<snipped recurrence stats Thanks Ann for the statistics but I won’t show them to my daughter.  I don’t want her to dwell on the probabilities.

One good side effect of my having recently started racing (rowing) is that increasing I can look at the recurrence & survival stats is just another goal time I need to beat <grin. In fact, so far (knock wood), I’m doing better vs. the BC stats than the race stats.  (In almost all my races, I’ve been what the rowers refer to as "DFL" – Dead <bleep Last.  But I’m about four and a half years out from a diagnosis of locally advanced BC, and still here to talk about it, so far NED.) My motto is to "live, live, live, until we die"

And a good motto it is, too.  <Offensive language warning  When I was in college, (mumble) years ago, I knew a guy who had a t-shirt that said "Boogie ’til you puke". Given the kinds of acquaintences I had in college, I’m sure he meant it *quite* literally.  In recent years, though, it’s begun to seem to me that it’s not such a bad philosophical position, existentially and metaphorically speaking. Statistics are just that and we will never know where we fit while on our journey.  I guess I don’t want to know the specifics.  Might ruin my day at the beach. (grin)

Can’t have that!  <return grin  Enjoy the beach, and best to you & your daughter! Ann T.

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Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 84    65    53    48    44    42    40    37    36    34 Radiation and Chemotherapy: 1yr   2yr   3yr   4yr   5yr   6yr   7yr   8yr   9yr   10yr 92    78    69    63    58    55    54    52    50    48

Interesting numbers  ;-) On a side note (and mainly because I didn’t want to start a new thread) it looks like Deborah and I are back in the fight and about to do Round 3 with the beast. Test results show her CA15-3 is rising even though she’s on Herceptin now.  Her last bone scan showed a hot spot on her spine (but an MRI revealed it was just degenerative disk disease) but the last pile of tests show her markers are on the way up and a touch of emphysema that we’ve never seen in a chest x-ray.  Deborah has been a nonsmoker for almost 20 years, so WTF? Anyway, her markers always run low (I don’t think they’ve ever been above 60) but have increased from 27 to 47 in the last four weeks.  The part that’s making me nervous is that her lungs and abdomen are clear – and knowing how I tend to panic at stuff like this and because she’s doing Herceptin it’s about everything I can do to keep from demanding a skull CT.  No sense looking for trouble when she’s still asymptomatic, though.  I’ll calm down in a few days, I think  ;-) Anyway, Dr. Smiley wants to wait until July 6 to make a decision, but has told her if her markers continue to rise that it’ll be time to start chemo again.  He’s recommending that we try adding Navelbine to the Herceptin again since the combination’s worked well before.  I’m a little skeptical because it’s the Herceptin that’s been keeping her alive all this time and now there’s some question whether it’s still effective.  In preparation for this stuff she’s doing a bone density test and a MUGA scan and I’m looking for a Lapatinib trial just in case.  I haven’t mentioned this to Deborah yet, though  ;-) Y’all have known me for almost six years – and when the nasties start growing again I panic for a bit and then settle down and do what needs to be done, I think.  Right now I’m still in the ‘oh, crap’ mode. Anyway, Dr, Smiley gave Deborah 6-12 months in August, 1999 – almost six years ago.  We’ve beaten the odds and then some and I think we can do it for awhile more. Anyway, I’ll know a lot more on July 6. hugs to all –

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I’ve been trawling through various web sites and news groups in search of some statistics on recurrence rates by year.  Somewhere I have had it put in my head that the first 2 years is the real danger period for recurrence and that rates after that signifigantly decrease to 5 years, then remain more or less flat until 10 years, then gradually tail off. However, I cannot find any paper or other research that shows this, and am beginning to doubt that what I remember is, in fact, true.  Does anyone here have a pointer to a reliable source that shows recurrence rates by year? Thanks in advance Bryan Tonnet

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been trawling through various web sites and news groups in search of some statistics on recurrence rates by year.  Somewhere I have had it put in my head that the first 2 years is the real danger period for recurrence and that rates after that signifigantly decrease to 5 years, then remain more or less flat until 10 years, then gradually tail off. However, I cannot find any paper or other research that shows this, and am beginning to doubt that what I remember is, in fact, true.  Does anyone here have a pointer to a reliable source that shows recurrence rates by year? Thanks in advance Bryan Tonnet

I haven’t seen anything that puts that information in a simple graph, but you could probably construct one from the US SEER statistical database, which is I believe available on CD. I am sure what you say is approximately true.  There are several components to the risk you describe. The first is the risk that the cancer had already metastasised and produced distant tumours which were as yet below the detection threshold.  Most of these cases should show up somewhere between six months and two of years, so producing an initial bump.  They don’t show up in the first six months because if they were undetectable by instrument at the time of surgery then they are unlikely to become symptomatic in that time. The second is the risk that some stray cells were in the bloodstream and remained dormant for a long time before seeding a new tumour.  This risk should decay over time looking pretty much like the tail of a normal distribution, and is generally reckoned to have become an insignificant part of the risk by five years. The third is the risk of another primary starting up in tissue that has already demonstrated a propensity for doing such things.  This is at least a constant throughout life, or may even increase with age.  While the lifetime risk of bc among the general population is about 1 in 8, among bc survivors it is about 1 in 3. Tim Jackson

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xray treatment and cancer

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [..]apparently fluoroscopes were used for other health purposes also. http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/chp2F.html  Seems to be a retrospective (don’t know if it’s accurate or not) – although I think their assumptions at the end of the page are not supported by statistics. Also mentions chiropractors and benign diseases treated by xray.  I suppose they were forms of "clinical trials" in one way.  Doses and equipment and training have changed. Alas, a lot of that was not clinical trials, but misguided enthusiasm for a neat new technology. Exactly.

And we still have that too, it’s regarded as cutting edge technology or received wisdom. They both MIGHT be right … oh? and did it work?  30 years ago, 4 adults (including me) couldn’t stop my nosebleed so one drove me to ER (with blood streaming into a bucket) only to find out that none of us was squeezing the right place on the nose !

LOL! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As an aside, or related, my hair’s been falling out (in large handfuls for the past few years. I think I read where having too many scans can cause that and indeedy, 2 years ago I had a plethora of tests.  [...] My hair’s falling out too, but it’s just male pattern baldness in my case. (( :-/ Sorry you feel that way. I never notice. Personality and butts are what count (eh Mary?)

Right! The ones I notice are the awful coverup attempts. I’ve recently seen Donald Trump (on TV) and his coverup attempt is ugly – not even the same color. If it bothers you, there’s always hair transplants, right?

Right! Prosthetics ahoy! Mary drunk In vino veritas Not that I know: a) who Donald Trump is b) what he looks like without a cover-up …

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [..]apparently fluoroscopes were used for other health purposes also. http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/chp2F.html  Seems to be a retrospective (don’t know if it’s accurate or not) – although I think their assumptions at the end of the page are not supported by statistics. Also mentions chiropractors and benign diseases treated by xray.  I suppose they were forms of "clinical trials" in one way.  Doses and equipment and training have changed. Alas, a lot of that was not clinical trials, but misguided enthusiasm for a neat new technology. Exactly. Soft (low-voltage) x-rays were used to treat ringworm of the scalp.  I got x-ray therapy to the nose when I was about 10 years old, to try to stop nosebleeds. oh? and did it work?  30 years ago, 4 adults (including me) couldn’t stop my nosebleed so one drove me to ER (with blood streaming into a bucket) only to find out that none of us was squeezing the right place on the nose !  A lot of infants got x-ray treatment to decrease thymus size.  (The thymus is a lymphatic organ in the upper anterior chest.)  Chest fluoroscopy used to be used for tuberculosis screening, and an upper GI series (stomach x-rays with a barium suspension for contrast) and barium enemas were evaluated fluoroscopically. Nowadays, they use image intensifiers to do the same thing with much lower radiation exposure.. " Fetal irradiation was quite common. "  Yuck ! As an aside, or related, my hair’s been falling out (in large handfuls for the past few years. I think I read where having too many scans can cause that and indeedy, 2 years ago I had a plethora of tests.  [...] My hair’s falling out too, but it’s just male pattern baldness in my case. (( :-/ Sorry you feel that way. I never notice. Personality and butts are what count (eh Mary?) The ones I notice are the awful coverup attempts. I’ve recently seen Donald Trump (on TV) and his coverup attempt is ugly – not even the same color. If it bothers you, there’s always hair transplants, right? Regards, J

Actually, I sort of enjoy it.  It provides an alternative to "fine, thank you" when someone asks "How are you?"  If I reply "I’m fat, bald, and deaf, thank you.  How are you?" they usually get a grin.

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Sorry you feel that way. I never notice. Personality and butts are what count (eh Mary?) The ones I notice are the awful coverup attempts. I’ve recently seen Donald Trump (on TV) and his coverup attempt is ugly – not even the same color. If it bothers you, there’s always hair transplants, right? Actually, I sort of enjoy it.  It provides an alternative to "fine, thank you" when someone asks "How are you?"  If I reply "I’m fat, bald, and deaf, thank you.  How are you?" they usually get a grin.

ROTFL try that one on a telephone solicitor. But, but, but..what’s your butt like? J PS Did the nosebleed treatment work?

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[...] My hair’s falling out too, but it’s just male pattern baldness in my case. (( :-/ Sorry you feel that way. I never notice. Personality and butts are what count (eh Mary?) Right!

and money? (see below) you decide. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The ones I notice are the awful coverup attempts. I’ve recently seen Donald Trump (on TV) and his coverup attempt is ugly – not even the same color. If it bothers you, there’s always hair transplants, right? Right! Prosthetics ahoy! Mary drunk In vino veritas Not that I know: a) who Donald Trump is b) what he looks like without a cover-up …

b) http://www.usdreams.com/Trump.html He looked quite nice in his younger years. a) billionaire US real estate mogule – see current picture here http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/001523.html (I think he had a permanent pout put on his mouth…joke – or it’s a "pose"). "Donald Trump has the largest combover in the history of modern man. Allegedly, he had a scalp reduction several years ago to get rid of a bald spot and currently tries to cover the thin parts of his hair by using the ‘combover’ technique. While it does work to hide the thin areas, it looks totally ridiculous. This guy would be dateless if he didn’t have any cash. One observer says,’Does it start at the back, swirl toward the right front and then hook left and the bushy brow and sweep left to the back again? Does it take four bottles of hair spray to keep it in place? Does it hang to his knees when he’s in the shower?’ <end quote He always has to have some "young thing" dangling off his arm. He gives them big diamonds, then asks them to sign a pre-nuptual. The current one would be his 3rd wife. I predict it will last no more than 3 years. She’ll leave. J

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Actually, I sort of enjoy it.  It provides an alternative to "fine, thank you" when someone asks "How are you?"  If I reply "I’m fat, bald, and deaf, thank you.  How are you?" they usually get a grin.

That sounds like the way I make my daughter cringe when she insists on taking me shopping. After standing in a queue for a while at a checkout the cashier often says "Sorry about your wait.", to which my habitual (but untrue) reply of "I’m trying to lose some" usually gets a grin too. Tim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry you feel that way. I never notice. Personality and butts are what count (eh Mary?) The ones I notice are the awful coverup attempts. I’ve recently seen Donald Trump (on TV) and his coverup attempt is ugly – not even the same color. If it bothers you, there’s always hair transplants, right? Actually, I sort of enjoy it.  It provides an alternative to "fine, thank you" when someone asks "How are you?"  If I reply "I’m fat, bald, and deaf, thank you.  How are you?" they usually get a grin. ROTFL try that one on a telephone solicitor. But, but, but..what’s your butt like? J PS Did the nosebleed treatment work?

I had fewer nose bleeds after that, but (1) we had moved to a different city where the allergies were less for a year or two and (2) I was approaching teen age, which might have had some effect. .

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… Actually, I sort of enjoy it.  It provides an alternative to "fine, thank you" when someone asks "How are you?"  If I reply "I’m fat, bald, and deaf, thank you.  How are you?" they usually get a grin.

When people ask how I feel I invite them to feel me … no-one’s ever taken me up on it Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Actually, I sort of enjoy it.  It provides an alternative to "fine, thank you" when someone asks "How are you?"  If I reply "I’m fat, bald, and deaf, thank you.  How are you?" they usually get a grin. That sounds like the way I make my daughter cringe when she insists on taking me shopping.

Tim, almost everything a parent says makes their children cringe. It will get worse before it gets better And you’ll be cringing at what she says before long … Mary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] My hair’s falling out too, but it’s just male pattern baldness in my case. (( :-/ Sorry you feel that way. I never notice. Personality and butts are what count (eh Mary?) Right! and money? (see below) you decide. The ones I notice are the awful coverup attempts. I’ve recently seen Donald Trump (on TV) and his coverup attempt is ugly – not even the same color. If it bothers you, there’s always hair transplants, right? Right! Prosthetics ahoy! Mary drunk In vino veritas Not that I know: a) who Donald Trump is b) what he looks like without a cover-up … b) http://www.usdreams.com/Trump.html He looked quite nice in his younger years. a) billionaire US real estate mogule – see current picture here http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/001523.html (I think he had a permanent pout put on his mouth…joke – or it’s a "pose"). "Donald Trump has the largest combover in the history of modern man. Allegedly, he had a scalp reduction several years ago to get rid of a bald spot and currently tries to cover the thin parts of his hair by using the ‘combover’ technique. While it does work to hide the thin areas, it looks totally ridiculous. This guy would be dateless if he didn’t have any cash. One observer says,’Does it start at the back, swirl toward the right front and then hook left and the bushy brow and sweep left to the back again? Does it take four bottles of hair spray to keep it in place? Does it hang to his knees when he’s in the shower?’ <end quote He always has to have some "young thing" dangling off his arm. He gives them big diamonds, then asks them to sign a pre-nuptual. The current one would be his 3rd wife. I predict it will last no more than 3 years. She’ll leave. J

Response:

[..]apparently fluoroscopes were used for other health purposes also. http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/chp2F.html  Seems to be a retrospective (don’t know if it’s accurate or not) – although I think their assumptions at the end of the page are not supported by statistics. Also mentions chiropractors and benign diseases treated by xray.  I suppose they were forms of "clinical trials" in one way.  Doses and equipment and training have changed. Alas, a lot of that was not clinical trials, but misguided enthusiasm for a neat new technology.

Exactly. Soft (low-voltage) x-rays were used to treat ringworm of the scalp.  I got x-ray therapy to the nose when I was about 10 years old, to try to stop nosebleeds.

oh? and did it work?  30 years ago, 4 adults (including me) couldn’t stop my nosebleed so one drove me to ER (with blood streaming into a bucket) only to find out that none of us was squeezing the right place on the nose !  A lot of infants got x-ray treatment to decrease thymus size.  (The thymus is a lymphatic organ in the upper anterior chest.)  Chest fluoroscopy used to be used for tuberculosis screening, and an upper GI series (stomach x-rays with a barium suspension for contrast) and barium enemas were evaluated fluoroscopically.  Nowadays, they use image intensifiers to do the same thing with much lower radiation exposure..

" Fetal irradiation was quite common. "  Yuck ! As an aside, or related, my hair’s been falling out (in large handfuls for the past few years. I think I read where having too many scans can cause that and indeedy, 2 years ago I had a plethora of tests.  [...] My hair’s falling out too, but it’s just male pattern baldness in my case. (( :-/

Sorry you feel that way. I never notice. Personality and butts are what count (eh Mary?) The ones I notice are the awful coverup attempts. I’ve recently seen Donald Trump (on TV) and his coverup attempt is ugly – not even the same color. If it bothers you, there’s always hair transplants, right? Regards, J

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 With J’s complex medical history, including possible diabetes and thyroid diseases http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.lupus/browse_thread/t… http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.med/browse_thread/thread/1e06… It could be anything, but it is not breast cancer! Alex PS the Lead aprons I where are very heavy! I can barely stand up when I have to stand it when a patient is having a procedure! —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the early 1960’s I received extensive xray treatment for a hemangioma on my right side. I have had thyroid cancer and have heard that xray treatment can contribute to thyroid cancer and breast cancer. Does anyone have any information on this? D. It is well known that every dose of x-rays contributes a small increase to the lifetime risk of several types of cancer – hence (e.g.) the withdrawal of fluoroscope shoe fitting in the 1950’s. Googling "x-ray cancer risk" gets lots of references, including the following which has a nice table of risks and a discussion of the cost/benefit analysis of x-ray, and links to more detailed information. www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/300104xray.html Hi Tim, apparently fluoroscopes were used for other health purposes also. http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/chp2F.html  Seems to be a retrospective (don’t know if it’s accurate or not) – although I think their assumptions at the end of the page are not supported by statistics. Also mentions chiropractors and benign diseases treated by xray.  I suppose they were forms of "clinical trials" in one way.  Doses and equipment and training have changed.  I think they also mention "economical pressures and not wanting to refer to specialists" as reasoning for primary care physicians over-ordering tests.

Alas, a lot of that was not clinical trials, but misguided enthusiasm for a neat new technology.  Soft (low-voltage) x-rays were used to treat ringworm of the scalp.  I got x-ray therapy to the nose when I was about 10 years old, to try to stop nosebleeds.  A lot of infants got x-ray treatment to decrease thymus size.  (The thymus is a lymphatic organ in the upper anterior chest.)  Chest fluoroscopy used to be used for tuberculosis screening, and an upper GI series (stomach x-rays with a barium suspension for contrast) and barium enemas were evaluated fluoroscopically.  Nowadays, they use image intensifiers to do the same thing with much lower radiation exposure.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember, over 50 years ago, wearing an apron. It was very heavy. I cannot remember if it covered the neck area or not (unless the affixing part/strap, around the neck was also protective.  As I recall it covered the chest and stomach area. Do you remember? I think it was dental x-rays. http://www.shieldingintl.com/aprons.htm The dental ones there look "light" compared to what I remember wearing and the ones there seem to fully cover the neck. Anyway, we can’t change the past, but can be careful we don’t expect too much of tests and expect less diagnostic skills from our physicians (which is a problem in our area with many doctors because they don’t have time). As an aside, or related, my hair’s been falling out (in large handfuls for the past few years. I think I read where having too many scans can cause that and indeedy, 2 years ago I had a plethora of tests.  The hair falling out has moderated some this year, but this year I have to redo some of the same tests. The reason I mention this is tests (how recent, how many and the type) for cancer patients may also play a role in who does not lose their hair and those that don’t during chemo. (just a theory) J- (PS the other post by "J" is the Turd-guy)

My hair’s falling out too, but it’s just male pattern baldness in my case. (( :-/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the early 1960’s I received extensive xray treatment for a hemangioma on my right side. I have had thyroid cancer and have heard that xray treatment can contribute to thyroid cancer and breast cancer. Does anyone have any information on this? D. It is well known that every dose of x-rays contributes a small increase to the lifetime risk of several types of cancer – hence (e.g.) the withdrawal of fluoroscope shoe fitting in the 1950’s. Googling "x-ray cancer risk" gets lots of references, including the following which has a nice table of risks and a discussion of the cost/benefit analysis of x-ray, and links to more detailed information. www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/300104xray.html

Hi Tim, apparently fluoroscopes were used for other health purposes also. http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/chp2F.html  Seems to be a retrospective (don’t know if it’s accurate or not) – although I think their assumptions at the end of the page are not supported by statistics. Also mentions chiropractors and benign diseases treated by xray.  I suppose they were forms of "clinical trials" in one way.  Doses and equipment and training have changed.  I think they also mention "economical pressures and not wanting to refer to specialists" as reasoning for primary care physicians over-ordering tests. I remember, over 50 years ago, wearing an apron. It was very heavy. I cannot remember if it covered the neck area or not (unless the affixing part/strap, around the neck was also protective.  As I recall it covered the chest and stomach area. Do you remember? I think it was dental x-rays. http://www.shieldingintl.com/aprons.htm The dental ones there look "light" compared to what I remember wearing and the ones there seem to fully cover the neck. Anyway, we can’t change the past, but can be careful we don’t expect too much of tests and expect less diagnostic skills from our physicians (which is a problem in our area with many doctors because they don’t have time). As an aside, or related, my hair’s been falling out (in large handfuls for the past few years. I think I read where having too many scans can cause that and indeedy, 2 years ago I had a plethora of tests.  The hair falling out has moderated some this year, but this year I have to redo some of the same tests. The reason I mention this is tests (how recent, how many and the type)  for cancer patients may also play a role in who does not lose their hair and those that don’t during chemo. (just a theory) J- (PS the other post by "J" is the Turd-guy)

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In the early 1960’s I received extensive xray treatment for a hemangioma on my right side. I have had thyroid cancer and have heard that xray treatment can contribute to thyroid cancer and breast cancer. Does anyone have any information on this? D.

Response:

In the early 1960’s I received extensive xray treatment for a hemangioma on my right side. I have had thyroid cancer and have heard that xray treatment can contribute to thyroid cancer and breast cancer. Does anyone have any information on this? D.

It is well known that every dose of x-rays contributes a small increase to the lifetime risk of several types of cancer – hence (e.g.) the withdrawal of fluoroscope shoe fitting in the 1950’s. Googling "x-ray cancer risk" gets lots of references, including the following which has a nice table of risks and a discussion of the cost/benefit analysis of x-ray, and links to more detailed information. www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/300104xray.html Tim Jackson

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Steady Diet of Soy Cuts Breast Cancer Risk

Question:

I’ve never heard of any problems eating soy.  Its supposed to be healthy for you.

Response:

To the soy issue, we have discussed this a number of times, and the current consensus opinion appears to be that a diet composed mainly of soya might possibly aggravate cancer, but that normal amount of soya in processed foods etc. are unlikely to be any more harmful than the alternative.  However as far as the Original Post is concerned, to quote Michael Winner’s well known British TV insurance advert, "Calm down dear, its only a commercial."

To expand on that in a non-expert, certainly non-medical-professional, personal opinion way: It seems like this thread has asserted quite strongly in spots (nb: not Tim personally) that soy is firmly contraindicated for ER+ cancer survivors.  Maybe there’s new news, but when I did some fairly careful & wide reading a couple of years back, I didn’t get the idea that things were quite that well-established. Then, it seemed to me that the soy/ER+ questions were still more a matter of faith than research. Soy advocates were saying things that amounted to "Population studies suggest soy might reduce the number who get BC in the first place, so why would it aggravate BC once you have it?" (basing this week chain of inference on the "Asians in Asia get less BC" idea); or "Sure, soy is a phyto-estrogen, but we’re totally sure that even if it briefly encourages the BC cells it will smack them down once the concentrations are right." The anti-soy folks seemed to be saying "Phyto-estrogen is kinda like extrogen, and soy is a strong phyto-estrogen, so clearly it’s going to encourage growth of ER+ BC" . . . even though some other substances with estrogen-like qualities don’t necessary behave just like real human estrogen (Tamoxifen, maybe?). Nobody — at that time — seemed to have solid research that was very much use in answering this question convincingly. Personally, I decided to skip eating soy as a "better safe than sorry" measure, but I think the opposite conclusion would be an equally rational decision. I hate stuff like that.  I hope someone finds out.  But science only knows what it knows, and after that we’re all making stuff up.  If anyone’s doctor can offer solid research evidence on this point, please share! Ann T.

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Asian cultures have used soy for thousands of years. I am sure they’d be surprised to hear they are substituting it for meat. Zee This is not true. The Chinese first cultured and used soybeans.  They used it for animal feed and not human food.  They understood the toxic consequenses of humans eating the soy bean. It was not until the Chinese learned to ferment the bean that soy became a human food source. Why have we forgotten this lesson? Why do we not understand this fact? Why and how does fermenting the soy bean render it suitable human food? DrC PhD

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Er, I hope this post isn’t a reply to mine. I was expressing cynicism at the source of the quote. As Tim says, in his customary excellent post, " … its only a commercial." Mary Mary, I was not responding to your reply but to the original poster.  I apologize for not taking the time to post her post and make that clear.

It seemed a little confused, I wasn’t criticising but wanted it to be clear.. I am very eager to read any info which can educate me about bc but I think one needs to make certain information about Soy is not misunderstood.  I really miss being able to enjoy food with Soy products but it’s a price those of us with ER+ bc must pay to protect ourselves.

And a small price Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bea

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have two immediate questions about the consumption of soy. First, was the soy fermented naturally or chemically processed? Their is a health and taste difference. Secondly, most people who consume soy are doing so to avoid the eating of meat protein. There are many other replacements.When we didn’t eat meat we just didn’t eat meat, we didn’t feel the need to substitute look-alikes. We do not have to eat meat "substitutes" to get protein.

No, I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I thought that. But there are many meat substitutes which do re-form soya beans to look like meat products – textured vegetble protein it used to be called. That’s what I think is a nonsense. Plants have protein. Soy just happens to be one of the best plant protein sources. Dried soy beans can be cooked like any bean; and fresh green soy beans, cooked as we do peas, are delicious in salads or alone, drizzled with olive oil and sprinkled with kosher salt and cracked black pepper.

Sounds good, I’ve never seen fresh soya beans in Englnd. I once tried growing them, it was an utter failure. I love fresh beans and peas and occasionally use dried pulses but the dried ones do need a lot of help in the form of drizzled oil, salt and pepper – or herbs or other sauces. I prefer vegetables as they come – but that’s just me.. Asian cultures have used soy for thousands of years. I am sure they’d be surprised to hear they are substituting it for meat.

Re-formed soya meat look-alike in Japan is not uncommon And the Chinese have bean curd, which these days is sometimes ‘flavoured’ artificially to resemble meat. The range of manufacturers and advertisers is very powerful Mary

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I have two immediate questions about the consumption of soy. First, was the soy fermented naturally or chemically processed? Their is a health and taste difference. Secondly, most people who consume soy are doing so to avoid the eating of meat protein.

There are many other replacements.When we didn’t eat meat we just didn’t eat meat, we didn’t feel the need to substitute look-alikes. Perhaps the real conclusion should be that the reduction of meat consumption can reduce breast cancer 22% even if you eat chemically processed soy.

Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DrC PhD

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Have you completely disregarded the fact that patients like myself have been told we cannot eat any soy products?  If Soy is so good for you then "you" does not include "me" unfortunately.

Er – I hope this post isn’t a reply to mine. I was expressing cynicism at the source of the quote. As Tim says, in his customary excellent post, " … its only a commercial." I eat very little soy (I’d say none but there just might be some as an ingredient I haven’t spotted).That’s not because of bc but because we only eat dishes made from fresh or  directly purchased or grown ingredients. I don’t feel a need for soy, when I tried the beans in a dish they were nigh on tasteless. Just thought, I very occasionally (perhaps as often as twice a year) use soy sauce. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bea

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Er, I hope this post isn’t a reply to mine. I was expressing cynicism at the source of the quote. As Tim says, in his customary excellent post, " … its only a commercial."

Mary Mary, I was not responding to your reply but to the original poster.  I apologize for not taking the time to post her post and make that clear. I am very eager to read any info which can educate me about bc but I think one needs to make certain information about Soy is not misunderstood.  I really miss being able to enjoy food with Soy products but it’s a price those of us with ER+ bc must pay to protect ourselves.   Bea

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you completely disregarded the fact that patients like myself have been told we cannot eat any soy products?  If Soy is so good for you then "you" does not include "me" unfortunately. I have also read that soya is counter-indicated in people who have an "estrogen-receptor positive" breast cancer.  In the operating room, last week, I asked the surgeon (it seems to be the only time I can speak to him, he is unreacheable otherwise) if my cancer is "estrogen-receptor positive".  He went to look in my file and came back to tell me that reports on receptors had not yet arrived. I’m in the dark, and I don’t like it. But I had already stopped any intake of soya when I learned that flax oil and soya oil could make cancerous tumors grow and spread in "estrogen-receptor positive" breast cancers. That disease is the kind that you have to find all the information by yourself.  Either here on alt.support.cancer.breast (Thank you Sandy L. for the information on the French language Canadian support group – I have subscribed), or everywhere on the Internet. Doctors don’t know much more than we do, and sometimes know less.  When the surgeon announced to me that I had a tumerous breast cancer on February 23, I showed him a recent article from the "Journal of Clinical Oncology" which explained that two types of taxanes, "paclitaxel" or "docetaxel", with doxorubicin, which are usually administered long after surgery, when they are administered BEFORE SURGERY, can reduce the size of the tumor, and therefore, limit the damage on the breast.  The surgeon repliedthat this sort of medication is for post-surgery.  I knew that and the article said that.  But he didn’t event want to read the article.  His reaction was the same as that could have been from my hairdresser’s: "Oh, you know, these studies, they prove something one day, and the month after they prove the contrary".  And he refused to consider this pre-operative medication to reduce the size of the tumor. Perhaps if he had listened to me and had accepted to try the treatment before surgery, the tumor would have shrunk and I would not have that horrible circular scar surrounding more than a quarter of my left breast. I was operated again, last week, on April 19, to remove another slice of tissues inside my breast.  I still have bandages.  The nurse who came to my place to change the bandages last week discovered that the surgeon had chosen, this time, to use "staples" (agrafes), rather "melting stiches" (points fondants). I dread my appointment with the surgeon on May 6.  He will remove the staples. Outch!  But he will probaby also tell me about the analysis of the slice of tissues that he has removed last week. If it is cancerous, he will want to remove my breast.  But he is a surgeon, not an oncologist. From the moment I had pain in my breast in September 2004, which prompted me to call the hospital to make an appointment for a mammogram, I have never seen either my generalist, nor an oncologist. The only doctor I have seen is that surgeon, whose job is to cut. And he cuts, and he cuts and wants to cut. I want to see an oncologist !  I will not let that surgeon continue to make all the decisions concerning my breast cancer, as he has been doing from the beginning. Je vais mettre mon pied

first time reader

Question:

Hi Wendy,   I am a breast cancer survivor as well and a nurse… It must be hard on you to have pain, I have 3 kids as well, I know you don’t want to slow down, but some times you have to take help from other people, if u have that support. First of all stop being so stotic, take the pain medication, find one the fits, not just the first prescribed, you need something for pain because bone pain is usually the worst. Are you worried about being too drowsy, find one that doesn’t do that as much, even if you can get a decrease in pain is better than full blown pain, and try not to let the pain get ahead of you. Are you in chemo now or radiation? Hope everything works out for you  Sincerely. Sandra

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a breast cancer survivor with bone mets.  I’ve been in alot of pain and was wondering if anyone had any ideas how to lessen the pain without drugs. I don’t like to and I can’t be stuck in bed due to the fact that I’m a full time mother of two very active boys.  I hope that someone out there can suggest something.

Response:

Hi Wendy,  I am a breast cancer survivor as well and a nurse… It must be hard on you to have pain, I have 3 kids as well, I know you don’t want to slow down, but some times you have to take help from other people, if u have that support. First of all stop being so stotic, take the pain medication, find one the fits, not just the first prescribed, you need something for pain because bone pain is usually the worst. Are you worried about being too drowsy, find one that doesn’t do that as much, even if you can get a decrease in pain is better than full blown pain, and try not to let the pain get ahead of you. Are you in chemo now or radiation? Hope everything works out for you Sincerely. Sandra

Well said.  I might add that pain has adverse effects on health itself. Depression is common.  Blood pressure may increase.  Cortisol levels will increase, with adverse effects on the body including physical changes in the brain over time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a breast cancer survivor with bone mets.  I’ve been in alot of pain and was wondering if anyone had any ideas how to lessen the pain without drugs. I don’t like to and I can’t be stuck in bed due to the fact that I’m a full time mother of two very active boys.  I hope that someone out there can suggest something.

Response:

I’m a breast cancer survivor with bone mets.  I’ve been in alot of pain and was wondering if anyone had any ideas how to lessen the pain without drugs. I don’t like to and I can’t be stuck in bed due to the fact that I’m a full time mother of two very active boys.  I hope that someone out there can suggest something.

Response:

I’m a breast cancer survivor with bone mets.  I’ve been in alot of pain and was wondering if anyone had any ideas how to lessen the pain without drugs. I don’t like to and I can’t be stuck in bed due to the fact that I’m a full time mother of two very active boys.  I hope that someone out there can suggest something.

Radiotherapy! — Tim Jackson -Who needs to pay Microsoft?  Free Open Source Software- www.mozilla.org       FIREFOX Web Browser,  THUNDERBIRD Email/News www.openoffice.org      Office Suite

Response:

I’m a breast cancer survivor with bone mets.  I’ve been in alot of pain and was wondering if anyone had any ideas how to lessen the pain without drugs. I don’t like to and I can’t be stuck in bed due to the fact that I’m a full time mother of two very active boys.  I hope that someone out there can suggest something.

As Tim suggested, a treatment that directly attacks the cause is the first choice. Really effective pain relief without drugs may be hard to come by.  There are a lot of good reasons for wanting to do without opiates if you can, but the reason I hear most often, fear of addiction, is not among them.  The risk of addiction in people who are taking them for chronic pain is said to be about 1%, with most of those having clear-cut history of prior addiction or risk factors for addiction.  1% is, on one hand, a fairly high rate for a major complication but when one considers that about 10% of the general population is said to be addicted to alcohol, it seems less problematic. If morning stiffness is part of the pain problem, spend 15 to 30 seconds stretching before even trying to get out of bed.  Do the same if you have been sitting for a long time.  Capsaicin cream (E.g., Capzaisin(R), Zostrix(R),. . . ), a sort of liniment might help a little.  Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS) like aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, and others or COX-2 inhibitors like Celebrex may help and may have some anti-tumor activity. The NSAIDS are best taken on a regular basis, not just when the pain gets bad.

Response:

Brain mets

Question:

Hi folks, I’m a lurker.

Not any more  Welcome to the group. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Canada and my wife, Lynne, has metastatic breast cancer. She was originally diagnosed in July 2004 with inflammatory breast cancer with 3 distinct tumours in her breast. One was attached to the chest wall and apparently to one of her ribs. A biopsy of the lumps and of the sentinel lymph node was positive for breast cancer. The ultrasound, CT, X-ray, bone scan and MRI examinations showed 8 spots of possible mets in the liver (described as very small and hardly measurable, however, they grew and by the time any treatment was effective, three of them were over 2 cm in size). The cancer was found to be PR+ and strongly Her2 positive. We later learned that there were some "speckles" on her pelvis and a node in each lung. With this picture, the prognosis has never been rosy, but not hopeless. Lynne has had 2 cycles of Herceptin and 7 of Adriamycin. She had a partial response to the Adriamycin with reduction of the liver mets by about 60 percent. A week ago, she started on a bisphosphonate (Clodronate), however stopped after the first day when she developed serious nausea and suffered vomiting.

I didn’t think anyone used that any more.  My wife had it in 1999, but there have been two more generations of bisphosphonates since then which are many times more powerful, such as Zometa.  Not that they will do much about the cancer, they only address limiting and repairing the damage it causes to bones. We have a palliative care physician who got her admitted to hospital. While in hospital, they did a contrast enhanced CT of her brain. it revealed 3 lesions, the largest just over 2 cm. in size. We have an appointment with a radiation oncologist next Thursday (the 21st) and I’m working on getting an early appointment with the treating oncologist earlier in the week, maybe Tuesday. The information I’ve been able to find on the net is confusing. In most cases it paints a very poor picture of Lynne’s future, in some cases, even with treatment 2 months, but, in most about 7 months.

I am afraid so. With the multiple lesions, it looks like surgery is not a probable option and that we will be looking at whole brain radiation.

I think that is right. Many of the items indicated that the outcome was linked more to the progress against the underlying disease than to the treatment of the brain mets. I found one recent study published in March 2005 that gave a much better prognosis with the use of Herceptin.

I understand that while Herceptin can be very effective for some people, there are quite a lot of patients who are HER2+ for whom it nonetheless doesn’t work.  It’s unlikely to cure her – her condition sounds very advanced – but it might buy some more time. And buy is the operative word, it is rather expensive for whoever has to pay for it. I have a list of questions I want to ask the 2 oncologists but thought this might be fodder for the grist mill of this group. I haven’t posted my list as this post is already long enough, suffice it to say that they deal with the worsening prognosis, the area of the brain involved, the probability of side effects of the radiation treatment as well as general questions about the continuing treatment of the bone, liver and lung mets.

I’ll leave others to answer about brain radiation, but I don’t think the side effects are usually severe. Radiotherapy is very effective at holding bone mets in abeyance.  A shot   on a troublesome tumour will set back its development by a couple of years, and will take about six week s to take effect.  There is a limit to how much radiation can be fired at any given spot, so it is generally best to reserve this for tumours which are causing pain or threat of fracture. Steph who often answers radiotherapy questions on alt.support.cancer is an expert on this sort of stuff, and is based in Canada. Lung mets may be treatable by surgery if necessary, or by treatment of symptoms.  The liver mets are probably the most threatening and hardest to deal with.  This is where Herceptin might benefit most. — Tim Jackson -Who needs to pay Microsoft?  Free Open Source Software- www.mozilla.org       FIREFOX Web Browser,  THUNDERBIRD Email/News www.openoffice.org      Office Suite

Response:

Thank you for your input.

We have an appointment with the radiation oncologist on Thursday and suspect that with the multiple mets, it’ll be whole brain radiation. All of the other therapies for bone, liver and lung mets are taking a back seat to this new threat. We’re not expecting miracles, just a little more time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi, Bryan – I can only add one thing to Tim’s response – but it does bear investigating. Herceptin saved my wife’s life (knock on wood) but is largely ineffective in treating brain mets, I’m afraid.  The reason Herceptin is less-than-effective is that it’s a large-molecule drug and does not pass through the blood-brain barrier easily.  I saw a study awhile back that showed the concentration of Herceptin in someone’s blood is on the order of 300 times the concentration in the same patient’s spinal fluid. But – I have heard of drug trials where Herceptin was administered by spinal infusion and this might be worth investigating if she does respond to the drug. Duke University has done some intracerebral infusion of Herceptin in rats – you can read about it here: http://www.duke.edu/~sampson/HER2002_3106.pdf Good luck, Bryan – and welcome. — allan we don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are. — Anais Nin

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earlier in the week, maybe Tuesday. The information I’ve been able to find on the net is confusing. In most cases it paints a very poor picture of Lynne’s future, in some cases, even with treatment 2 months, but, in most about 7 months. With the multiple lesions, it looks like surgery is not a probable option and that we will be looking at whole brain radiation. Many of the items indicated that the

Bryan, please ask your doctors to investigate Temodar.  It’s an oral drug that enhances the effectiveness of whole brain radiation.  Somewhere around here I have the actual clinical trial reference that demonstrates this.  If you can’t find it or your doctors are reluctant to do the homework please e-mail me and I’ll track down the information. You are correct that the prognosis is not good but please don’t give up.  With cancer each individual is different and responds differently to treatment.  There is still hope. – Tony Lima

Response:

Hi folks, I’m a lurker. I live in Canada and my wife, Lynne, has metastatic breast cancer. She was originally diagnosed in July 2004 with inflammatory breast cancer with 3 distinct tumours in her breast. One was attached to the chest wall and apparently to one of her ribs. A biopsy of the lumps and of the sentinel lymph node was positive for breast cancer. The ultrasound, CT, X-ray, bone scan and MRI examinations showed 8 spots of possible mets in the liver (described as very small and hardly measurable, however, they grew and by the time any treatment was effective, three of them were over 2 cm in size). The cancer was found to be PR+ and strongly Her2 positive. We later learned that there were some "speckles" on her pelvis and a node in each lung. With this picture, the prognosis has never been rosy, but not hopeless. Lynne has had 2 cycles of Herceptin and 7 of Adriamycin. She had a partial response to the Adriamycin with reduction of the liver mets by about 60 percent. A week ago, she started on a bisphosphonate (Clodronate), however stopped after the first day when she developed serious nausea and suffered vomiting. We have a palliative care physician who got her admitted to hospital. While in hospital, they did a contrast enhanced CT of her brain. it revealed 3 lesions, the largest just over 2 cm. in size. We have an appointment with a radiation oncologist next Thursday (the 21st) and I’m working on getting an early appointment with the treating oncologist earlier in the week, maybe Tuesday. The information I’ve been able to find on the net is confusing. In most cases it paints a very poor picture of Lynne’s future, in some cases, even with treatment 2 months, but, in most about 7 months. With the multiple lesions, it looks like surgery is not a probable option and that we will be looking at whole brain radiation. Many of the items indicated that the outcome was linked more to the progress against the underlying disease than to the treatment of the brain mets. I found one recent study published in March 2005 that gave a much better prognosis with the use of Herceptin. I have a list of questions I want to ask the 2 oncologists but thought this might be fodder for the grist mill of this group. I haven’t posted my list as this post is already long enough, suffice it to say that they deal with the worsening prognosis, the area of the brain involved, the probability of side effects of the radiation treatment as well as general questions about the continuing treatment of the bone, liver and lung mets. Any other suggestions greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Bryan

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