Long term lately

Question:

Been so depressed, feel like i’m disappearing as a person, don’t know how to describe it differently. Just time passing, and waiting to die. Feel no connection to anything or anyone anymore. Anyone ever have that feeling ? Like they’re just disappearing ? Have moments of distraction, but no real life left in me. Feels like i’m fighting genes and nature, and immutable laws, and only gets tougher as get older. Sorry, bad morning. Stressful month to say the least

I’ve been there, done that.  I’m currently waiting for a diagnosis of breast cancer and am almost hoping I have it so that I’m at the end of my road.  I know that sounds terrible, but I’m completely familiar with the feelings you’re describing. What I hate to hear from people when I feel like this is, "Oh, cheer up, it will get better!"  Oh, bite me.  What I want to hear is validation from others that they feel like that too. I understand. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Feels like i’m fighting genes and nature, and immutable laws, and only gets tougher as get older.

Yeah, I feel that way too. The good news is, we can sleep for about a third of the time. :-/ Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

You are not alone my friend. I sometimes just want to give up the fight and die. Anxiety and Panic Disorder have created havoc in my life the past 20 years but you must never give up. You are right about this monster getting worse as we age. Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been so depressed, feel like i’m disappearing as a person, don’t know how to describe it differently. Just time passing, and waiting to die. Feel no connection to anything or anyone anymore. Anyone ever have that feeling ? Like they’re just disappearing ? Have moments of distraction, but no real life left in me. Feels like i’m fighting genes and nature, and immutable laws, and only gets tougher as get older. Sorry, bad morning. Stressful month to say the least — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Been so depressed, feel like i’m disappearing as a person, don’t know ::how to describe it differently. :: ::Just time passing, and waiting to die. Feel no connection to anything ::or anyone anymore. :: ::Anyone ever have that feeling ? Like they’re just disappearing ? Dear Paul, I understand what you are going through. Been there myself. I`m really sorry you are having such a crappy month. Don`t ever give up. I didn`t give up and my life is better for it. Wishing you peace from your suffering and healing from your pain. Jackie ~*~Would you respect my mind more if it bounced gently when I walked?~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Paul, I hope things are getting better for you. Deirdre, I really like your "basic set of tools for getting out of that space". I’m going to take that advice and get the hell out of here. I’m going to try to go out sailing w/my friend and his wife tomorrow! — Doug

Been so depressed, feel like i’m disappearing as a person, don’t know how to describe it differently. Just time passing, and waiting to die. Feel no connection to anything or anyone anymore. Anyone ever have that feeling ? Like they’re just disappearing ?

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Paul, I hope things are getting better for you. Deirdre, I really like your "basic set of tools for getting out of that space". I’m going to take that advice and get the hell out of here. I’m going to try to go out sailing w/my friend and his wife tomorrow!

Oh wait — I can’t. Oh well — have fun Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Been so depressed, feel like i’m disappearing as a person, don’t know how to describe it differently. Just time passing, and waiting to die. Feel no connection to anything or anyone anymore. Anyone ever have that feeling ? Like they’re just disappearing ? Have moments of distraction, but no real life left in me. Feels like i’m fighting genes and nature, and immutable laws, and only gets tougher as get older. Sorry, bad morning. Stressful month to say the least

I have been in that place more times than I can count, but I’m still here. My basic set of tools for getting out of that space: *talking* to therapist, doctor, friends — every day, as often as necessary *writing*: journal, random thoughts, a letter to an old friend, email *sunlight and fresh air* — even if you don’t actually go outside, sitting beside an open window helps; however, going outside is better, even if it’s just to stand on the sidewalk for a minute or two, breathe the air, examine the sky. *mindfulness exercises* — to sharpen your senses. If you need specifics on these just ask. and most of all, *music*.  For me, the best therapeutic music is from my younger days, songs I haven’t heard in a long time, songs that make me smile and stand up and stretch. Or dance, if I’m not too stiff. Even if I feel I have the energy for only ONE of these activities, it’s okay — doing SOMETHING feels better than doing NOTHING, even though doing nothing is easier. Just make yourself do ONE thing. Just one. No long list of to-do’s. No schedule. Just one thing. If that feels good, maybe tomorrow you can do it again, or do something else, or maybe two things. I do understand. There are days when getting out of bed is the hardest thing I can imagine. Those are the days when my "one thing" is getting out of bed. By the way — it doesn’t much matter which "one thing" you choose. There’s a Neil Young song that has this line, which I love to quote, and which is pertinent to your situation: If you don’t really know where you want to go It makes no difference Which road you take (At first glance that verse seems depressing — but really it’s very hopeful.  You’ve got a whole roadmap full of choices, and any one of them is GOOD.) Thus endeth my 2 cents.  I’d love to hear about what you choose to do. Sending you courage, Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Update– another (3rd) and maybe more possible cancers in addition to b.c….

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …..So–in addition to this–last Saturday when I went for analysis of total body CT scan I had done a week+ before (which I did upon recommendation of 2nd opinion oncologist because dr. who does these is very familiar w/lobular b.c. (expert?).  Anyway, first thing he asks me was how long I had lump in my neck? WHAT?  What lump in neck.  He then mentioned submandibular area on right side. Okay…that showed up on first PET scan 2 + years before.  I was told that was ‘incidental’ finding.  Nobody was concerned.  I had other PETs–most recently about  3 mos. ago.  Dr. who read it didn’t compare it w/first.  ….. Oh and then there are the retroperitoneal nodes and aortocaval node(s) and now mesentary node(s?) which supposedly were not likely to be associated w/b.c per first CT scan report.  It took 21 mos+ of researching b.c. to learn that that was common area for mets for lobular. …..

I am glad I read this post.  I had an "incidental" finding on my first PET scan, and now I will be vigilant about it when I have future scans.  Thank you, Kaye. Eva

Response:

Kaye, you have been busy. Basal cell skin cancer is the best type of cancer to have a 100% curable. Many people have enlarged thyroids, and after biopsy most are neg, all I have to say your case is very complex. The good news you are 4 years past your diagnosis and sounds like you are doing better than ever! Has any doctor told you these findings are breast cancer or they just don’t know. Alex — ALEXANDRA KOFFMAN

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last month in addition to having been dx’d with 3 types of aggressive b.c. in 3/01, I was dx’d with basal cell carcinoma.  My husband and daughter (in med school) had thought it a skin tag when I showed it to ‘em.  I never saw it–was in area on back–about an inch from spine that I couldn’t see–even with angled mirrors.  A few weeks later I had my  husband look at it again–he thought it might be bigger.  I had dermatologist look at it.  He said he was 100% sure, then changed to 99% sure it was a wart.  It turned out to be positive for basal cell.  He said he’d never seen on like it before.  (He is not a ‘new’ dr. and has large practice). So–in addition to this–last Saturday when I went for analysis of total body CT scan I had done a week+ before (which I did upon recommendation of 2nd opinion oncologist because dr. who does these is very familiar w/lobular b.c. (expert?).  Anyway, first thing he asks me was how long I had lump in my neck? WHAT?  What lump in neck.  He then mentioned submandibular area on right side. Okay…that showed up on first PET scan 2 + years before.  I was told that was ‘incidental’ finding.  Nobody was concerned.  I had other PETs–most recently about  3 mos. ago.  Dr. who read it didn’t compare it w/first.  I contacted her.  She said she didn’t have the images or report.  I then brought it in. She said she saw something but wasn’t going to change report.  So, then I have this very sensitive CT scan and it now appears like a tumor… That’s not all.  There is also a lesion on my thyroid.  Wonderful.  I just happened to  have an appt w/my endocrinologist (non-profit HMO).  She is fabulous — one of best dr’s I’ve seen.  I share report w/her (verbally) telling her about supposed lesion and that CT scan dr.  had suggested ultrasound of thyroid.  She has equipment for that in office so she said she’d do it and said she wanted to take biopsy if indicated.  It was.  She did. So, now I might have thyroid cancer (from radiation?). Oh and then there are the retroperitoneal nodes and aortocaval node(s) and now mesentary node(s?) which supposedly were not likely to be associated w/b.c per first CT scan report.  It took 21 mos+ of researching b.c. to learn that that was common area for mets for lobular.  Well, first CT scan report said there were a few–but they were smaller than one cm.  Most recent regular CT–done 2 weeks before full body CT scan–did not mention any nodes.  Well, guess what–at review of full body CT scan I was told there were 30 to 40 enlarged nodes in this area-GULP–with largest being around 2 cm.  This dr. said HMO report was ‘wrong.’  Kind of a bittersweet validation of what I assumed was really taking place.  Sigh… Another positive about this visit–was that I felt a sense of trust and confidence in this physician when soon after I came in he said that not that much or as much was known about lobular which should not be the case since about 15% of b.c.’s are lobular (which makes it more prevalent than many other types of cancer).  He also said that most dr’s didn’t know that much about it–confirming what my experiences have been. Meanwhile, I have been working more–increased schedule to 4 days a week and am scheduled to return to work full-time–for 1st time since 1983…My family’s doing great.  My eldest is in 4th yr of med school and barely keeping head above water–doing 14 hour rotations and flying around the country for interviews for residency.  Went from CA to Washington and then in 5 days back to CA and then to San Franciso and then to PA and then to TX.  My middle daughter will be starting new (1st professional) job as asst. art director of a magazine in the mid-west, and  my youngest is a sophmore in college who is totally emeshed in the ’scene’ (active student, 4.0 g.p.a., sorority leader, and community volunteer)…My husband continues to be very supportive, albeit stressed from all this and quite demanding work schedule…Despite what is going on (including share of other dr’s who I have encountered who are A*’s, make that patronizing jerks–although have been finding many who ARE professional as well as seem very competent), life IS good…

Response:

Last month in addition to having been dx’d with 3 types of aggressive b.c. in 3/01, I was dx’d with basal cell carcinoma.  My husband and daughter (in med school) had thought it a skin tag when I showed it to ‘em.  I never saw it–was in area on back–about an inch from spine that I couldn’t see–even with angled mirrors.  A few weeks later I had my  husband look at it again–he thought it might be bigger.  I had dermatologist look at it.  He said he was 100% sure, then changed to 99% sure it was a wart.  It turned out to be positive for basal cell.  He said he’d never seen on like it before.  (He is not a ‘new’ dr. and has large practice). So–in addition to this–last Saturday when I went for analysis of total body CT scan I had done a week+ before (which I did upon recommendation of 2nd opinion oncologist because dr. who does these is very familiar w/lobular b.c. (expert?).  Anyway, first thing he asks me was how long I had lump in my neck? WHAT?  What lump in neck.  He then mentioned submandibular area on right side. Okay…that showed up on first PET scan 2 + years before.  I was told that was ‘incidental’ finding.  Nobody was concerned.  I had other PETs–most recently about  3 mos. ago.  Dr. who read it didn’t compare it w/first.  I contacted her.  She said she didn’t have the images or report.  I then brought it in. She said she saw something but wasn’t going to change report.  So, then I have this very sensitive CT scan and it now appears like a tumor… That’s not all.  There is also a lesion on my thyroid.  Wonderful.  I just happened to  have an appt w/my endocrinologist (non-profit HMO).  She is fabulous — one of best dr’s I’ve seen.  I share report w/her (verbally) telling her about supposed lesion and that CT scan dr.  had suggested ultrasound of thyroid.  She has equipment for that in office so she said she’d do it and said she wanted to take biopsy if indicated.  It was.  She did.  So, now I might have thyroid cancer (from radiation?). Oh and then there are the retroperitoneal nodes and aortocaval node(s) and now mesentary node(s?) which supposedly were not likely to be associated w/b.c per first CT scan report.  It took 21 mos+ of researching b.c. to learn that that was common area for mets for lobular.  Well, first CT scan report said there were a few–but they were smaller than one cm.  Most recent regular CT–done 2 weeks before full body CT scan–did not mention any nodes.  Well, guess what–at review of full body CT scan I was told there were 30 to 40 enlarged nodes in this area-GULP–with largest being around 2 cm.  This dr. said HMO report was ‘wrong.’  Kind of a bittersweet validation of what I assumed was really taking place.  Sigh… Another positive about this visit–was that I felt a sense of trust and confidence in this physician when soon after I came in he said that not that much or as much was known about lobular which should not be the case since about 15% of b.c.’s are lobular (which makes it more prevalent than many other types of cancer).  He also said that most dr’s didn’t know that much about it–confirming what my experiences have been. Meanwhile, I have been working more–increased schedule to 4 days a week and am scheduled to return to work full-time–for 1st time since 1983…My family’s doing great.  My eldest is in 4th yr of med school and barely keeping head above water–doing 14 hour rotations and flying around the country for interviews for residency.  Went from CA to Washington and then in 5 days back to CA and then to San Franciso and then to PA and then to TX.  My middle daughter will be starting new (1st professional) job as asst. art director of a magazine in the mid-west, and  my youngest is a sophmore in college who is totally emeshed in the ’scene’ (active student, 4.0 g.p.a., sorority leader, and community volunteer)…My husband continues to be very supportive, albeit stressed from all this and quite demanding work schedule…Despite what is going on (including share of other dr’s who I have encountered who are A*’s, make that patronizing jerks–although have been finding many who ARE professional as well as seem very competent), life IS good…

Response:

Help with weight…

Question:

I’ve begun with lifting 5-8 lbs and doing 10-15 reps, 3 times, every other day. I try to take walks every other day and do crunches as well. Is this enough to build muscle or should I be doing more? I still don’t know how much I should eat. At only 5′7 and 110 lbs, it shouldn’t take much to gain weight but it seems my body is constantly craving food. I only want to gain the 1-2 lbs per week so that most of the weight gained is healthy. What do you think is the minimum-maximum calorie range for someone like me? I’ve been averaging about 1900-2000 a day but that’s not enough, because I’m still hungry. The first week ends tomorrow and it doesn’t look like I’ve gained anything yet, maybe half a pound (the scale isn’t digital, so it’s not as easy to tell). Should I be eating 2300-2500 calories? Maybe I should just aim for 2 lbs per week instead of 1? My typical day includes fruit and veggies (though probably not enough veggies), (usually) complex carbs, a fair amount of cheese, protein sources like one serving of meat, tuna or peanut butter, and usually one sweet. sara hello teacher tell me what’s my lesson, look right through me, look right through me.

Response:

my AOL keeps signing me off so I can’t respond directly to your posts… I am attaching an article about volunteers who starved themselves and what happened to them after they were allowed to eat all they want.

Thanks for the article. I wouldn’t say that my reaction was as intense, but I’ve definitely had more mood swings, been more fatigued, and been more preoccupied with food since I’ve lost the weight. I’ll notice when I get very hungry, which usually happens about 3-4 hours after eating, I feel sick. Last night, for example, I forgot to bring my protein bar out with my friends, and around 11:30-12 (4 hours after dinner) I felt awful. When I got home around 12:30 I felt nauseous, achy, and almost a little shaky, and then made a PB and jelly sandwich as quickly as possible. An hour later, I ate tuna salad, and then another hour later I had a bowl of cereal, bringing the total to 2315 when I’m usually satisfied with 2000-2100. I definitely cannot forget my energy bar or snack again because it seems that if I don’t eat every 3-3.5 hours then my body reacts very strongly. I don’t want to have to resort to Taco Bell or Wendy’s out of desperation when we’re out, which I’ve already done once– 2 regular tacos, which tasted pretty good I might add, for 79 cents each. You already demonstrated remarkable willpower, and common sense (by deciding to gain a little bit), I would suggest to use it now to limit your rate of weight gain in order to gain more muscle.

I’ve been trying to figure out how much my maintenace is. At little or no exercise I think it would be about 1650, but I think I could consider myself "lightly active"– don’t you think? I cook, clean, walk, shop, etc. At lightly active it says I would be 1750-1850. So maybe instead of 2000 per day I’ll try 2200 if I *still* have not gained anything noticable by Saturday. sara hello teacher tell me what’s my lesson, look right through me, look right through me.

Response:

I’ve begun with lifting 5-8 lbs and doing 10-15 reps, 3 times, every other day. I try to take walks every other day and do crunches as well. Is this enough to build muscle or should I be doing more?

http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html All you need to know to get started. Amy

Response:

You’re only eating one protein serving a day?

No, I meant one serving at a time. Like for dinner, if I had meat, it would be 3-4 oz. I’m trying to keep my meals normal-sized and just eat more of them. (Though you do need to add some fat too. And don’t be afraid of fat in your diet, by the way.)

I do tend to like certain foods to be low fat (cottage cheese, yogurt, milk, beef), but I’m not afraid of fat. PB and olive oil should be good. I have Cabot 75% light cheddar in the fridge, but when it runs out I might just buy a full fat version because I like it more. Last night I also ate 1/2 a cheese calzone for dinner at my boyfriend’s house, and I’m planning on finishing the other half for dinner tonight, so that should be sufficient fat. Do you consider any foods to be "bad"? For example, pizza (and my calzone) tend to be high in fat, but it’s really just cheese and bread– doesn’t seem too unhealthy in acceptable portion sizes (like my 1/2 calzone), though it might be detrimental for those trying to *lose* weight. These foods can be especially good if you make them at home, because you can control portions and ingredients better. On the other hand, you have foods like Cheetos, fried potato chips or french fries, and candy bars, which never seem to be "good" in any situation because they offer so little in comparison to their negative qualities. Would you agree? sara hello teacher tell me what’s my lesson, look right through me, look right through me.

Response:

I’ve begun with lifting 5-8 lbs and doing 10-15 reps, 3 times, every other day. I try to take walks every other day and do crunches as well. Is this enough to build muscle or should I be doing more?

What you need to do is lift sufficient weight that it’s challenging to complete the 3 sets of 10-15 reps.  By challenging, I mean you may have trouble doing the 10 reps by the last set.  The amount of weight it will take to challenge you will differ based on the type of exericse you’re doing.  And it will increase over time.  You build muscle by stressing the muscle.  Every other day is a good schedule. I still don’t know how much I should eat. At only 5′7 and 110 lbs, it shouldn’t take much to gain weight but it seems my body is constantly craving food. I only want to gain the 1-2 lbs per week so that most of the weight gained is healthy. What do you think is the minimum-maximum calorie range for someone like me? I’ve been averaging about 1900-2000 a day but that’s not enough, because I’m still hungry. The first week ends tomorrow and it doesn’t look like I’ve gained anything yet, maybe half a pound (the scale isn’t digital, so it’s not as easy to tell). Should I be eating 2300-2500 calories? Maybe I should just aim for 2 lbs per week instead of 1?

My recommendation would be to eat as much as you want, sticking primarily to healthy foods.  The reason for counting calories at this point would be not to limit them but to understand how much you’re eating so you can determine the cause-and-effect relationship between your consumption and your weight.  Don’t eat to the point of discomfort, but don’t ever go hungry.  Eat frequent meals.   Two pounds per week would be a fairly high rate of weight gain at your body weight.  As long as the trend is upward, I wouldn’t worry too much about a specific goal rate. My typical day includes fruit and veggies (though probably not enough veggies), (usually) complex carbs, a fair amount of cheese, protein sources like one serving of meat, tuna or peanut butter, and usually one sweet.

You’re only eating one protein serving a day?  Why is that?  Unless you have some health reason that limits your protein intake, you should try to have some protein at every meal — a minimum of three servings a day.  Other than that, your diet sounds good.  Nuts would be an excellent addition, if you’re not now eating them.  Also eggs. Protein, among other things, will help you build muscle.  (Actually, the cheese is a protein source too.)  You might consider supplementing with protein shakes; many of them are packed with other good nutrients that will help you add muscle to your body rather than just fat. (Though you do need to add some fat too.  And don’t be afraid of fat in your diet, by the way.) Chris

Response:

I think there are some foods, like those you’ve named, that have little nutritional value.  I don’t know that I’d call them "bad", exactly; I just wouldn’t recommend that one eat them often.  I don’t think the value of eating for enjoyment occasionally needs to be ignored.  It just shouldn’t be one’s main source of calories! Chris

Response:

Sara you will like the following snack. Roll in a slice of low fat Swiss shees, one slice Prosciutto, one roated red pepper slice, a litle Dijon mustard and a drop of honey.

That does sound really good. I just had prosciutto for lunch, actually: ciabatta bread w/ fresh mozzarella, roasted red pepper, and prosciutto. And blueberries on the side. sara hello teacher tell me what’s my lesson, look right through me, look right through me.

Response:

Can you do it experimentally? Record all you eat for a month and see how much your weight changes. You can figure it out from that.

That’s sort of what I’m trying to do. Weigh in officially every week, though, to maybe find out a little before a whole month has passed. It’s so hard at first because weight always fluctuates by 1 or 2 lbs anyway. Before I ate, I was 110; after I eat, I’m 111. I just try to check it in the morning I guess. I would guess that you would be closer to the lower end of your calorie range, due to your remarkable weight loss

I was thinking so as well. So I thought 2000-2100 should be enough for 1lb per week. I guess I’ll find out soon. Maybe .5 lb per week is best, anyway, but honestly– I just *feel* strange in my body, it feels so skinny, so it gets tempting to speed it up. You may also be interested that anorexics have a much lower risk of breast cancer.

Thanks, but you know I wasn’t actually anorexic, right? I wasn’t obsessed with being model thin and eating too little. I just didn’t know how much weight I had lost and thought 1300-1500 would be enough calories for me to maintain, not lose. And that’s partially the reason why I thought I might need more to gain, because I was still losing at least 1 lb per week eating 1300-1400, not 800 or something super low. sara hello teacher tell me what’s my lesson, look right through me, look right through me.

Response:

http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html All you need to know to get started. Amy

Thanks. sara hello teacher tell me what’s my lesson, look right through me, look right through me.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re only eating one protein serving a day? No, I meant one serving at a time. Like for dinner, if I had meat, it would be 3-4 oz. I’m trying to keep my meals normal-sized and just eat more of them. (Though you do need to add some fat too. And don’t be afraid of fat in your diet, by the way.) I do tend to like certain foods to be low fat (cottage cheese, yogurt, milk, beef), but I’m not afraid of fat. PB and olive oil should be good. I have Cabot 75% light cheddar in the fridge, but when it runs out I might just buy a full fat version because I like it more. Last night I also ate 1/2 a cheese calzone for dinner at my boyfriend’s house, and I’m planning on finishing the other half for dinner tonight, so that should be sufficient fat.

Sara you will like the following snack. Roll in a slice of low fat Swiss shees, one slice Prosciutto, one roated red pepper slice, a litle Dijon mustard and a drop of honey. — Diva ****** There is no substitute for the right food

Response:

BlueBird and LittleBit

Question:

I will pass on what I can of your message.  I have my own doubts about the herbalist, although I think she’s sincere.  BlueBird is convinced that it is this woman who has kept her alive for the past few years. Like you, I felt she was a quack, especially because BB takes all sorts of expensive vitamins and herbs recommended by her.  However, on a visit to BB, I took her to an appointment with the herbalist.  I found that she does not sell any of the things she recommends to BB.  The few items she does sell are quite low priced, and she does not charge nearly as much for her visits as most doctors do. I do doubt her medical wisdom and wish BB didn’t rely on her so much. For instance, she told BB she has a gall bladder problem, and gave her a diet to follow.  The diet bears no relation to the gall bladder diet a physician would recommend.  Instead of concentrating on cutting down on fat consumption, it prohibits several kids of vegetable, which makes no sense at all. However, as ill as BB is, I can’t try to undermine her faith in this woman.  For all I know, the placebo effect is helping her. I do understand and appreciate your concern, and will try to pass information that might help her. — Joy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy [Snip e-mail] Joy, I hate to do this, because Bluebird sounds so happy… but please – you must pass on to her that garlic, as with all alliums, is bad for cats. I quote: "the use of garlic, as well as onions, shallots, and chives, has been shown to cause damage to feline red blood cells which can result in hemolytic anemia and eventual death. Raw garlic and onions can also cause ulcers and irritation of the mouth, esophagus and stomach." Granted, garlic isn’t as toxic and nasty as onions, but more than a tiny bit will give Little Bit a stomach ache, and I’m sure she doesn’t need that right now. Like all of us, I am wishing for Little Bit to live a long, comfortable life… but if she’s sick she must be taken to a trained, professional vet, and not (forgive me if my scepticism breaks surface for a moment) a ‘herbalist’ quack. [Sound of Alphonze pulling on flame-proof underwear...] Cheers Al.

Response:

Would it be possible to pass the information about garlic and cats along to the herbalist nicely and have her recommend the change to Bluebird?   Let everyone save face and all? Jo — "Dogs may have kept us company on the hunt, but it was the cats who insisted we invent houses and discover fire."         — Khiem Tran

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will pass on what I can of your message.  I have my own doubts about the herbalist, although I think she’s sincere.  BlueBird is convinced that it is this woman who has kept her alive for the past few years. Like you, I felt she was a quack, especially because BB takes all sorts of expensive vitamins and herbs recommended by her.  However, on a visit to BB, I took her to an appointment with the herbalist.  I found that she does not sell any of the things she recommends to BB.  The few items she does sell are quite low priced, and she does not charge nearly as much for her visits as most doctors do. I do doubt her medical wisdom and wish BB didn’t rely on her so much. For instance, she told BB she has a gall bladder problem, and gave her a diet to follow.  The diet bears no relation to the gall bladder diet a physician would recommend.  Instead of concentrating on cutting down on fat consumption, it prohibits several kids of vegetable, which makes no sense at all. However, as ill as BB is, I can’t try to undermine her faith in this woman.  For all I know, the placebo effect is helping her. I do understand and appreciate your concern, and will try to pass information that might help her. — Joy I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy [Snip e-mail] Joy, I hate to do this, because Bluebird sounds so happy… but please – you must pass on to her that garlic, as with all alliums, is bad for cats. I quote: "the use of garlic, as well as onions, shallots, and chives, has been shown to cause damage to feline red blood cells which can result in hemolytic anemia and eventual death. Raw garlic and onions can also cause ulcers and irritation of the mouth, esophagus and stomach." Granted, garlic isn’t as toxic and nasty as onions, but more than a tiny bit will give Little Bit a stomach ache, and I’m sure she doesn’t need that right now. Like all of us, I am wishing for Little Bit to live a long, comfortable life… but if she’s sick she must be taken to a trained, professional vet, and not (forgive me if my scepticism breaks surface for a moment) a ‘herbalist’ quack. [Sound of Alphonze pulling on flame-proof underwear...] Cheers Al.

Response:

This is wonderful news! I’m so happy for LittleBit and BB! Thanks for letting us know, Joy. Continued purrs and best wishes for BB and LittleBit, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy <snip She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  <snip

Response:

I really, really hope that things work out for BlueBird and LittleBit.  We are sending buckets of purrs and prayers for them. Hazel Az

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.  I know y’all understand. Thanks for your support.  Our prayers have been kind of answered.  NOT !!!  God doesn’t do anything ‘kind of’.  He does everything good or bad all the way.  It IS answer to prayers.  I took my Little Bit to see my Herbalist, Tammy.  It was my appointment, but she requested I bring Little Bit, even though she is very much allergic to cats.  In doing her reading she did confirm that the one kidney IS gone completely.  The other has maybe 20% function left to it.  She told me that she can live a good live with as little as 10% of that kidney left functioning.  She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  One thing she did find was kind of that good/bad news.  She is diabetic !!!!   Imagine !  This is why her body has not been able to fight hard enough to keep that kidney healthy. It’s fighting the diabetes too.  So, starting today we are giving her what she needs for her body to fight the diabetes.  She says the diet Little Bit has chosen for herself….. not much of anything, but what she is eating is good for her.  She also had me put fresh garlic that has been ’smashed’ over whatever she eats.  Boy is she even my cat.  I love garlic on EVERYTHING !!!!  She told me to go out and buy some fresh garlic.  I just laughed.  I told her I didn’t even have money for me to eat until the 3rd of next month.  You know the last week before the 3rd…… we almost all of us have that malady !!! LOL  Well, now that we know what we are fighting, God, Little Bit and I will begin a new plan of battle.  Tammy made an appointment for Little Bit and for me two weeks from today.  I must have shown some doubt in my eyes as she said……’Yes, I said Little Bit WILL BE HERE for an appointment in two weeks !!!’  So that’s that, friends.  I’m looking at my precious fur baby laying at my feet as I work here on the computer (while getting quite worn out I might add) with a renewed faith that she is going to make it !!!!  I agree that it’s only if it is God’s will, Good night, from a very much relieved BlueBird.  Yes, I know there is a chance I might lose her…… but I believe she is going to make it !!!! Blue !!!!! Click on the Breast Cancer Site today.   www.thebreastcancersite.com

Response:

I agree that the placebo effect sometimes does wonders, so if BB has faith in the woman it’s a tough call. When I was a pharmcy tech in Alaska we had a patient who had gradually been weened off codeine and had it replaced with a brand of placebo which looked just like his old codeine tablets. He’d been taking the placebo for years and sworn by them, and even went through withdrawals if he didn’t get his placebo. On the otherhand, please do pass on the concerns some have posted about garlic and cats. Being a fairly new cat person, I had no idea garlic was toxic to the furry ones – I’m just thankful my girls don’t care for hoomin food (except of course for the bits Sammy steals from my plate). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will pass on what I can of your message.  I have my own doubts about the herbalist, although I think she’s sincere.  BlueBird is convinced that it is this woman who has kept her alive for the past few years. Like you, I felt she was a quack, especially because BB takes all sorts of expensive vitamins and herbs recommended by her.  However, on a visit to BB, I took her to an appointment with the herbalist.  I found that she does not sell any of the things she recommends to BB.  The few items she does sell are quite low priced, and she does not charge nearly as much for her visits as most doctors do. I do doubt her medical wisdom and wish BB didn’t rely on her so much. For instance, she told BB she has a gall bladder problem, and gave her a diet to follow.  The diet bears no relation to the gall bladder diet a physician would recommend.  Instead of concentrating on cutting down on fat consumption, it prohibits several kids of vegetable, which makes no sense at all. However, as ill as BB is, I can’t try to undermine her faith in this woman.  For all I know, the placebo effect is helping her. I do understand and appreciate your concern, and will try to pass information that might help her.

Response:

Would it be possible to pass the information about garlic and cats along to the herbalist nicely and have her recommend the change to Bluebird?   Let everyone save face and all? Jo

Good idea, helps maintain BB’s faith in the herbalist and maybe stop her from recommending garlic for cats in the future.

Response:

I will pass on what I can of your message.

It’s a difficult situation, and I’m sorry you have been caight in the middle, Joy. You have been so kind to relay BB’s messages, and ours to her. Many purrs all around. — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi

Response:

I will pass on what I can of your message.  I have my own doubts about the herbalist, although I think she’s sincere.

I had an herbalist before she married and relocated. She was an advocate for the medical profession, she had a hysterectomy towards the last of when I visited her. I also believe herbalism works miracles but… maybe a gentle reminder to Bluebird that she needs to contact a holistic vet, or holistic website to verify her herbalist’s suggestion might work. I don’t begrudge Bluebird’s new approach, and it’s possible a holistric treatment might actually prolong Little Bit’s life it can be difficult enough to prescribe herbs for us, much less our furred children. I can name at least five different commonly used herbs off the top of my head that should be on a no-no list for pregnant women . I know Bluebird is grasping at straws. In fact, if it can give her hope, I’ll say good things about the herbalist for just that reason. Our friend has come too far to be so sad now.

Response:

Thank you, Steve.  I will do that. — Joy Normal is in the eye of the beholder.  – Whoopie Goldberg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree that the placebo effect sometimes does wonders, so if BB has faith in the woman it’s a tough call. When I was a pharmcy tech in Alaska we had a patient who had gradually been weened off codeine and had it replaced with a brand of placebo which looked just like his old codeine tablets. He’d been taking the placebo for years and sworn by them, and even went through withdrawals if he didn’t get his placebo. On the otherhand, please do pass on the concerns some have posted about garlic and cats. Being a fairly new cat person, I had no idea garlic was toxic to the furry ones – I’m just thankful my girls don’t care for hoomin food (except of course for the bits Sammy steals from my plate). I will pass on what I can of your message.  I have my own doubts about the herbalist, although I think she’s sincere.  BlueBird is convinced that it is this woman who has kept her alive for the past few years. Like you, I felt she was a quack, especially because BB takes all sorts of expensive vitamins and herbs recommended by her.  However, on a visit to BB, I took her to an appointment with the herbalist.  I found that she does not sell any of the things she recommends to BB.  The few items she does sell are quite low priced, and she does not charge nearly as much for her visits as most doctors do. I do doubt her medical wisdom and wish BB didn’t rely on her so much. For instance, she told BB she has a gall bladder problem, and gave her a diet to follow.  The diet bears no relation to the gall bladder diet a physician would recommend.  Instead of concentrating on cutting down on fat consumption, it prohibits several kids of vegetable, which makes no sense at all. However, as ill as BB is, I can’t try to undermine her faith in this woman.  For all I know, the placebo effect is helping her. I do understand and appreciate your concern, and will try to pass information that might help her.

Response:

Would it be possible to pass the information about garlic and cats along to the herbalist nicely and have her recommend the change to Bluebird?   Let everyone save face and all? Jo Good idea, helps maintain BB’s faith in the herbalist and maybe stop her from recommending garlic for cats in the future.

That would be a good idea, but I don’t have any idea how to get in touch with her.  For that matter, I don’t even know her name.  BB has told me her first name, and I’ve forgotten that.  I don’t think I ever knew her last name.  Being 2,000 miles or so away makes it difficult.  I do appreciate the suggestion, though. Joy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will pass on what I can of your message.  I have my own doubts about the herbalist, although I think she’s sincere. I had an herbalist before she married and relocated. She was an advocate for the medical profession, she had a hysterectomy towards the last of when I visited her. I also believe herbalism works miracles but… maybe a gentle reminder to Bluebird that she needs to contact a holistic vet, or holistic website to verify her herbalist’s suggestion might work. I don’t begrudge Bluebird’s new approach, and it’s possible a holistric treatment might actually prolong Little Bit’s life it can be difficult enough to prescribe herbs for us, much less our furred children. I can name at least five different commonly used herbs off the top of my head that should be on a no-no list for pregnant women . I know Bluebird is grasping at straws. In fact, if it can give her hope, I’ll say good things about the herbalist for just that reason. Our friend has come too far to be so sad now.

Thank you for being so understanding, Grace, and thanks to everybody for caring. I had an e-mail in which BB said she considers this group to be her family, and she can feel the love that comes from here. Joy

Response:

Would it be possible to pass the information about garlic and cats along to the herbalist nicely and have her recommend the change to Bluebird?   Let everyone save face and all? Jo Good idea, helps maintain BB’s faith in the herbalist and maybe stop her from recommending garlic for cats in the future.

It seems to me that helping this woman maintain her faith in the quack is a very BAD thing.  The quack had no compulsion about recklessly telling her client to poison her cat.  There’s no telling what the quack is doing to this poor woman’s health.  The best you can say is that the quack isn’t expensive; so the lady may be slowly killing herself on the cheap. Small comfort there.

Response:

I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.

Purrs and prayers continue to come from us for both LittleBit and BlueBird. They are lucky to have each other and it is our hope that they have years more to spend together. Julie, Hobbes, Selena and Lacey

Response:

I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.  I know y’all understand. Thanks for your support.  Our prayers have been kind of answered.  NOT !!!  God doesn’t do anything ‘kind of’.  He does everything good or bad all the way.  It IS answer to prayers.  I took my Little Bit to see my Herbalist, Tammy.  It was my appointment, but she requested I bring Little Bit, even though she is very much allergic to cats.  In doing her reading she did confirm that the one kidney IS gone completely.  The other has maybe 20% function left to it.  She told me that she can live a good live with as little as 10% of that kidney left functioning.  She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  One thing she did find was kind of that good/bad news.  She is diabetic !!!!   Imagine !  This is why her body has not been able to fight hard enough to keep that kidney healthy. It’s fighting the diabetes too.  So, starting today we are giving her what she needs for her body to fight the diabetes.  She says the diet Little Bit has chosen for herself….. not much of anything, but what she is eating is good for her.  She also had me put fresh garlic that has been ’smashed’ over whatever she eats.  Boy is she even my cat.  I love garlic on EVERYTHING !!!!  She told me to go out and buy some fresh garlic.  I just laughed.  I told her I didn’t even have money for me to eat until the 3rd of next month.  You know the last week before the 3rd…… we almost all of us have that malady !!! LOL  Well, now that we know what we are fighting, God, Little Bit and I will begin a new plan of battle.  Tammy made an appointment for Little Bit and for me two weeks from today.  I must have shown some doubt in my eyes as she said……’Yes, I said Little Bit WILL BE HERE for an appointment in two weeks !!!’  So that’s that, friends.  I’m looking at my precious fur baby laying at my feet as I work here on the computer (while getting quite worn out I might add) with a renewed faith that she is going to make it !!!!  I agree that it’s only if it is God’s will, Good night, from a very much relieved BlueBird.  Yes, I know there is a chance I might lose her…… but I believe she is going to make it !!!! Blue !!!!! Click on the Breast Cancer Site today.   www.thebreastcancersite.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.  I know y’all understand. Thanks for your support.  Our prayers have been kind of answered.  NOT !!!  God doesn’t do anything ‘kind of’.  He does everything good or bad all the way.  It IS answer to prayers.  I took my Little Bit to see my Herbalist, Tammy.  It was my appointment, but she requested I bring Little Bit, even though she is very much allergic to cats.  In doing her reading she did confirm that the one kidney IS gone completely.  The other has maybe 20% function left to it.  She told me that she can live a good live with as little as 10% of that kidney left functioning.  She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  One thing she did find was kind of that good/bad news.  She is diabetic !!!!   Imagine !  This is why her body has not been able to fight hard enough to keep that kidney healthy. It’s fighting the diabetes too.  So, starting today we are giving her what she needs for her body to fight the diabetes.  She says the diet Little Bit has chosen for herself….. not much of anything, but what she is eating is good for her.  She also had me put fresh garlic that has been ’smashed’ over whatever she eats.  Boy is she even my cat.  I love garlic on EVERYTHING !!!!  She told me to go out and buy some fresh garlic.  I just laughed.  I told her I didn’t even have money for me to eat until the 3rd of next month.  You know the last week before the 3rd…… we almost all of us have that malady !!! LOL  Well, now that we know what we are fighting, God, Little Bit and I will begin a new plan of battle.  Tammy made an appointment for Little Bit and for me two weeks from today.  I must have shown some doubt in my eyes as she said……’Yes, I said Little Bit WILL BE HERE for an appointment in two weeks !!!’  So that’s that, friends.  I’m looking at my precious fur baby laying at my feet as I work here on the computer (while getting quite worn out I might add) with a renewed faith that she is going to make it !!!!  I agree that it’s only if it is God’s will, Good night, from a very much relieved BlueBird.  Yes, I know there is a chance I might lose her…… but I believe she is going to make it !!!! Blue !!!!! Click on the Breast Cancer Site today.   www.thebreastcancersite.com

Thanks for passing this on, Joy.  It sounds promising; please convey our continued best purrs and wishes for them both. love, Christine, Omar, Midnight, Oreo, Robin & Tucker

Response:

Oh I do hope that things turn out well. Give her my good wishes. Karen

Response:

Thank you, Karen.  I will. — Joy Owned and operated by Lindy and Skeeter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh I do hope that things turn out well. Give her my good wishes. Karen

Response:

I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy

[Snip e-mail] Joy, I hate to do this, because Bluebird sounds so happy… but please – you must pass on to her that garlic, as with all alliums, is bad for cats. I quote: "the use of garlic, as well as onions, shallots, and chives, has been shown to cause damage to feline red blood cells which can result in hemolytic anemia and eventual death. Raw garlic and onions can also cause ulcers and irritation of the mouth, esophagus and stomach." Granted, garlic isn’t as toxic and nasty as onions, but more than a tiny bit will give Little Bit a stomach ache, and I’m sure she doesn’t need that right now. Like all of us, I am wishing for Little Bit to live a long, comfortable life… but if she’s sick she must be taken to a trained, professional vet, and not (forgive me if my scepticism breaks surface for a moment) a ‘herbalist’ quack. [Sound of Alphonze pulling on flame-proof underwear...] Cheers Al.

Response:

I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today.

Purrs for Little Bit to be comfortable. Please pay heed to Alphonze’s message. — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi

Response:

I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today.

I’m so glad to hear LittleBit is hanging in there.  More purrs and prayers from us. However, I was a bit concerned about using the garlic on her food.  I told my biologist son about it and he reaffirmed that garlic is lethal to a cat.  It may not kill immediately but the "poison", even in the smallest amount of garlic, remains in the body even if no more is fed to the kitty.  I strongly urge BlueBird to STOP and think twice about this until she gets additional information. Our best wishes to all. Jeanne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.  I know y’all understand. Thanks for your support.  Our prayers have been kind of answered.  NOT !!!  God doesn’t do anything ‘kind of’.  He does everything good or bad all the way.  It IS answer to prayers.  I took my Little Bit to see my Herbalist, Tammy.  It was my appointment, but she requested I bring Little Bit, even though she is very much allergic to cats.  In doing her reading she did confirm that the one kidney IS gone completely.  The other has maybe 20% function left to it.  She told me that she can live a good live with as little as 10% of that kidney left functioning.  She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  One thing she did find was kind of that good/bad news.  She is diabetic !!!!   Imagine !  This is why her body has not been able to fight hard enough to keep that kidney healthy. It’s fighting the diabetes too.  So, starting today we are giving her what she needs for her body to fight the diabetes.  She says the diet Little Bit has chosen for herself….. not much of anything, but what she is eating is good for her.  She also had me put fresh garlic that has been ’smashed’ over whatever she eats.  Boy is she even my cat.  I love garlic on EVERYTHING !!!!  She told me to go out and buy some fresh garlic.

Garlic makes a lot of sense. It is believed to clense the blood. During the Middle ages people who ate a lot of garlic were less likely to die of the plague. This is why vampires supposedly hate it as it makes the "unclean" clean. Luckily garlic isn’t expensive. I hope Little Bit becomes as healthy as possible.   I just laughed.  I told her I didn’t even have money for me to eat until the 3rd of next month.  You know the last week before the 3rd…… we almost all of us have that malady !!! LOL  Well, now that we know what we are fighting, God, Little Bit and I will begin a new plan of battle.  Tammy made an appointment for Little Bit and for me two weeks from today.  I must have shown some doubt in my eyes as she said……’Yes, I said Little Bit WILL BE HERE for an appointment in two weeks !!!’  So that’s that, friends.  I’m looking at my precious fur baby laying at my feet as I work here on the computer (while getting quite worn out I might add) with a renewed faith that she is going to make it !!!!  I agree that it’s only if it is God’s will, Good night, from a very much relieved BlueBird.  Yes, I know there is a chance I might lose her…… but I believe she is going to make it !!!!

Suz Iron Chef Macmoosette Thank Heavens There’s Only One =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^= Chocolate heals all wounds.                  

Response:

Prayers and purrs continuing for Bluebird and her Little Bit Steve, my Little Bit, Sammy and Rocky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.  I know y’all understand. Thanks for your support.  Our prayers have been kind of answered.  NOT !!!  God doesn’t do anything ‘kind of’.  He does everything good or bad all the way.  It IS answer to prayers.  I took my Little Bit to see my Herbalist, Tammy.  It was my appointment, but she requested I bring Little Bit, even though she is very much allergic to cats.  In doing her reading she did confirm that the one kidney IS gone completely.  The other has maybe 20% function left to it.  She told me that she can live a good live with as little as 10% of that kidney left functioning.  She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  One thing she did find was kind of that good/bad news.  She is diabetic !!!!   Imagine !  This is why her body has not been able to fight hard enough to keep that kidney healthy. It’s fighting the diabetes too.  So, starting today we are giving her what she needs for her body to fight the diabetes.  She says the diet Little Bit has chosen for herself….. not much of anything, but what she is eating is good for her.  She also had me put fresh garlic that has been ’smashed’ over whatever she eats.  Boy is she even my cat.  I love garlic on EVERYTHING !!!!  She told me to go out and buy some fresh garlic.  I just laughed.  I told her I didn’t even have money for me to eat until the 3rd of next month.  You know the last week before the 3rd…… we almost all of us have that malady !!! LOL  Well, now that we know what we are fighting, God, Little Bit and I will begin a new plan of battle.  Tammy made an appointment for Little Bit and for me two weeks from today.  I must have shown some doubt in my eyes as she said……’Yes, I said Little Bit WILL BE HERE for an appointment in two weeks !!!’  So that’s that, friends.  I’m looking at my precious fur baby laying at my feet as I work here on the computer (while getting quite worn out I might add) with a renewed faith that she is going to make it !!!!  I agree that it’s only if it is God’s will, Good night, from a very much relieved BlueBird.  Yes, I know there is a chance I might lose her…… but I believe she is going to make it !!!! Blue !!!!! Click on the Breast Cancer Site today.   www.thebreastcancersite.com

Response:

Purrs being sent Bluebirds and littleBits way — Purrs to all Angela and Gizmo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.  I know y’all understand. Thanks for your support.  Our prayers have been kind of answered.  NOT !!!  God doesn’t do anything ‘kind of’.  He does everything good or bad all the way.  It IS answer to prayers.  I took my Little Bit to see my Herbalist, Tammy.  It was my appointment, but she requested I bring Little Bit, even though she is very much allergic to cats.  In doing her reading she did confirm that the one kidney IS gone completely.  The other has maybe 20% function left to it.  She told me that she can live a good live with as little as 10% of that kidney left functioning.  She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  One thing she did find was kind of that good/bad news.  She is diabetic !!!!   Imagine !  This is why her body has not been able to fight hard enough to keep that kidney healthy. It’s fighting the diabetes too.  So, starting today we are giving her what she needs for her body to fight the diabetes.  She says the diet Little Bit has chosen for herself….. not much of anything, but what she is eating is good for her.  She also had me put fresh garlic that has been ’smashed’ over whatever she eats.  Boy is she even my cat.  I love garlic on EVERYTHING !!!!  She told me to go out and buy some fresh garlic.  I just laughed.  I told her I didn’t even have money for me to eat until the 3rd of next month.  You know the last week before the 3rd…… we almost all of us have that malady !!! LOL  Well, now that we know what we are fighting, God, Little Bit and I will begin a new plan of battle.  Tammy made an appointment for Little Bit and for me two weeks from today.  I must have shown some doubt in my eyes as she said……’Yes, I said Little Bit WILL BE HERE for an appointment in two weeks !!!’  So that’s that, friends.  I’m looking at my precious fur baby laying at my feet as I work here on the computer (while getting quite worn out I might add) with a renewed faith that she is going to make it !!!!  I agree that it’s only if it is God’s will, Good night, from a very much relieved BlueBird.  Yes, I know there is a chance I might lose her…… but I believe she is going to make it !!!! Blue !!!!! Click on the Breast Cancer Site today.   www.thebreastcancersite.com

Response:

Thank you Christine.  Also thanks to Steve and Gizela.  I’ll pass your messages on to her. — Joy Normal is in the eye of the beholder.  – Whoopie Goldberg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the following e-mail about LittleBit from BlueBird today. Joy I apologize for sending this as a blanket message to several of my closest friends, hoping that you’ll tell who you think might be interested.  I know some people don’t understand that this is a member of my family I’m fighting to save, NOT a pet.  I know y’all understand. Thanks for your support.  Our prayers have been kind of answered. NOT !!!  God doesn’t do anything ‘kind of’.  He does everything good or bad all the way.  It IS answer to prayers.  I took my Little Bit to see my Herbalist, Tammy.  It was my appointment, but she requested I bring Little Bit, even though she is very much allergic to cats.  In doing her reading she did confirm that the one kidney IS gone completely.  The other has maybe 20% function left to it.  She told me that she can live a good live with as little as 10% of that kidney left functioning. She read that the remaining kidney is very much fighting to keep going and the rest of her body is very healthy and try hard to heal the kidney or at least not let it get any worse.  One thing she did find was kind of that good/bad news.  She is diabetic !!!!   Imagine !  This is why her body has not been able to fight hard enough to keep that kidney healthy. It’s fighting the diabetes too.  So, starting today we are giving her what she needs for her body to fight the diabetes.  She says the diet Little Bit has chosen for herself….. not much of anything, but what she is eating is good for her.  She also had me put fresh garlic that has been ’smashed’ over whatever she eats.  Boy is she even my cat. I love garlic on EVERYTHING !!!!  She told me to go out and buy some fresh garlic.  I just laughed.  I told her I didn’t even have money for me to eat until the 3rd of next month.  You know the last week before the 3rd…… we almost all of us have that malady !!! LOL  Well, now that we know what we are fighting, God, Little Bit and I will begin a new plan of battle.  Tammy made an appointment for Little Bit and for me two weeks from today.  I must have shown some doubt in my eyes as she said……’Yes, I said Little Bit WILL BE HERE for an appointment in two weeks !!!’  So that’s that, friends.  I’m looking at my precious fur baby laying at my feet as I work here on the computer (while getting quite worn out I might add) with a renewed faith that she is going to make it !!!!  I agree that it’s only if it is God’s will, Good night, from a very much relieved BlueBird.  Yes, I know there is a chance I might lose her…… but I believe she is going to make it !!!! Blue fail !!!!! Click on the Breast Cancer Site today.   www.thebreastcancersite.com Thanks for passing this on, Joy.  It sounds promising; please convey our continued best purrs and wishes for them both. love, Christine, Omar, Midnight, Oreo, Robin & Tucker

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Glad to hear both BlueBird and Little Bit are coping well I still have some stuff  I’ve saved for BB I just haven’t got it off yet, guess I’m very naughty and must pull my socks up, I’ll get it off as  soon as  possible   Jean.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy I’m glad to read that LittleBit is doing so well; we are sending purrs to BlueBird, hoping for better days for her. —— Krista Thanks, Krista.  I’ll pass the message on. — Joy Owned and operated by Lindy and Nanki-Poo

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When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working.

That’s great news about her LB – course I identify with hers because of the fluffy girl sitting in my lap as I type this. I remember how sick hers was last year – not eating and TED pretty much gave up hope. Another miracle kitty who proved the experts wrong. — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky (RB) Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

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by the government. Indeed, it seems to be accomplished in the quietest way possible, giving citizens the least amount of opportunity to choose their fate. Odd, since tax-payer paid-for government services is what gives them the power. But elected representatives will do, you say? Did you hear any of them mention it during campaigning? Did Alabama elected officials even mention it with their press release of a new driver’s license, despite that being the plan? No. What does that tell you? We need a cabinet-level Privacy Commission, with the power to intervene nationwide. Power to protect us little people from fanatical personal data collection. We are losing it piece by piece. Who would have thought the United States would collect fingerprints from all citizens? Collect biometric information from everyone… law enforcement’s Evil Holy Grail. *   "U.S. Has Plan to Broaden Availability tests of DNA Testing" *   By Fox Butterfield, The New York Times, undated but 1996 implied. *   *   In a little known provision of the Clinton Administration’s 1994 Crime *   Control Act was a call for th

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy I’m glad about LittleBit and wish she wasn’t/isn’t in so much pain. Suz  Macmoosette =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^=      "People that hate cats will come back as mice in their next life."      –Faith Resnick |__/| (=’:'=) (")_(")

Thanks, Suz.  I’ll pass this along. Joy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. That’s great news about her LB – course I identify with hers because of the fluffy girl sitting in my lap as I type this. I remember how sick hers was last year – not eating and TED pretty much gave up hope. Another miracle kitty who proved the experts wrong. — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky (RB)

Thanks, Steve.  I’ll pass this along to her. Incidentally, she went to a different expert.  BlueBird has been seeing a herbalist for some time, and credits the herbalist with keeping her alive, although she also sees conventional doctors too.  She told the herbalist about LittleBit, and the herbalist recommended some things to give him.  BB is convinced that is what cured him, and who am I to argue? Joy

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Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy

I’m glad about LittleBit and wish she wasn’t/isn’t in so much pain. Suz  Macmoosette =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^=      "People that hate cats will come back as mice in their next life."      –Faith Resnick |__/| (=’:'=) (")_(")

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Thanks to all who responded.  I’m saving your messages.  I’ll print them up and send them to BB. — Joy Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out.  – John Wooden

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to hear BlueBird is not doing so well. Lots of purrs and best wishes just for her. We are really happy to hear that LittleBit is doing well so he can take good care of BB. — Polonca & Soncek When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy I’m glad to read that LittleBit is doing so well; we are sending purrs to BlueBird, hoping for better days for her. —— Krista

Thanks, Krista.  I’ll pass the message on. — Joy Owned and operated by Lindy and Nanki-Poo

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When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working.

Glad to hear Little Bit is doing so well. Purrs to BlueBird for her health issues. — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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Sorry to hear BlueBird is not doing so well. Lots of purrs and best wishes just for her. We are really happy to hear that LittleBit is doing well so he can take good care of BB. — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy

Response:

When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy

Response:

When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working.

I was sorry to hear that BlueBird still had so many medical problems, but I’m very happy for LittleBit.  Thank you for the update!

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When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. I was sorry to hear that BlueBird still had so many medical problems, but I’m very happy for LittleBit.  Thank you for the update!

Same here.  I really feel for Bluebird. I hope they can figure out what the real problem is with the breathing. I’ve really begun to lose faith in doctors lately

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Superb, Joy, thanks so much for these updates! Christine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy

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When I posted BlueBird’s thanks for the holiday greeting cards, I forgot a very important thing she wanted me to mention. Some of you may remember that her cat, LittleBit, was having serious kidney problems, and it appeared that he had crf.  Currently he is very healthy, and both kidneys are working. Joy

That’s great news! — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

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Obs: Why are we so addicted to bidding for second-hand goods?

Question:

Great article! It’s not often that there’s something completely new under the sun, but I think Ebay qualifies.

Here’s some old news.  Don’t quote 418 lines of stuff to add a two line comment.  It’s a waste of resources worldwide, not to mention the time everyone has to take to scroll through it. — Outgoing mail is certified bollocks

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Here’s some old news.  Don’t quote 418 lines of stuff to add a two line comment.  It’s a waste of resources worldwide, not to mention the time everyone has to take to scroll through it.

You mean he added something?  I gave up after two screens and skipped to the next message. -Bertha — Whether you think you can or think you can’t, either way, you’re absolutely correct.        – Henry Ford

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eBay boomers It’s the ultimate global marketplace, raking in billions of dollars and attracting thousands of new users every day. And now, on the eve of its fifth anniversary, eBay is opening its own stores. So why are we so addicted to bidding for second-hand goods? Simon Garfield Sunday September 26, 2004 The Observer In 1976, the American singer-songwriter Tom Waits released a song called ‘Step Right Up’, in which he impersonated the souped-up sales-pitch of a veteran street hawker. ‘Everyone’s a winner, bargains galore,’ he began, describing an array of items including perfume, an engagement ring, smoke-damaged furniture, and a mythical product that lasted a lifetime, mowed your lawn, picked up the kids from school and removed embarrassing stains from sheets. The product, which never needed winding, was being sold at an unrepeatable price because it cut out the middle man. Earlier this month, tickets for a Tom Waits concert went on sale at Ticketmaster, and, this being his first London show for many years, sold out in about 30 minutes. Thirty minutes after that, the same tickets for the same show began appearing on the internet auction site eBay, alongside 25 million other goods such as engagement rings, perfume and lawn mowers. ‘Hi,’ one listing began, ‘You are bidding on two tickets together to see Tom Waits get Real Gone on his whistle-stop tour of Europe. He’s doing one date in the UK, his first since ‘87. But I’m telling you what you already know. These tickets are in the stalls in row D with seat numbers in the twenties … I sat in the exact same seats for Lou Reed recently and they were bloody fantastic. Face value is approximately

Another problem

Question:

(((Janers and Rhonda))) Wishing you both good luck and sending well wishes and prayers for good news to you both! hugs from Shelagh "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message

news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite > right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and > ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they > were spread out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they > did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White > spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of > dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a > circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to > keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one > to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind > outweighs my scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died > either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why > everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Response:

Janers, Sending prayers and hugs…I am glad that you are getting the biopsy done instead of waiting 6 months… Let us know…Hugs Cindy "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message

news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread > out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my > scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Response:

Hey Janers, Thumbs up kid!! I had an "opacity" at one time and they wanted to wait till the blue moon came to compare it with another x-ray.  Instead, I had the good doc do an ultrasound and they said it looked like a benign cyst.  My neighbor had the calcium deposits on her breast too and she just said to heck with it.  She would rather spend her money and have fun instead of more tests.  Oh well. And quess what, I even had a calcium deposit at the entrance of where the sun does not shine and was doing antibiotics for over a month.  Not sure if it is completely gone yet. I am getting very tired.  Not just of trying to keep on but tired of the doctors, the meds and the everything that has to do with autoimmune diseases. I am praying for you sweety and like most that Lupus does to you, it is probably just taking a few wacks at you like a cat’s claw.  It hates to see you getting too comfortable.  I think I will eat a pickle.  Heck with the diverticulitis.  Wanna join me in some therapeutic brine and vinager? HUGS! Always, cloud "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message

news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Response:

I think I will eat a pickle.  Heck with the diverticulitis.  Wanna join me in some therapeutic brine and vinager? I have that too and I would think that would be a great laxitive (hehehe). "cloud" <pjas…@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message

news:XYrYc.4445$uN5.1284@tornado.tampabay.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Janers, > Thumbs up kid!! > I had an "opacity" at one time and they wanted to wait till the blue moon > came to compare it with another x-ray.  Instead, I had the good doc do an > ultrasound and they said it looked like a benign cyst.  My neighbor had the > calcium deposits on her breast too and she just said to heck with it.  She > would rather spend her money and have fun instead of more tests.  Oh well. > And quess what, I even had a calcium deposit at the entrance of where the > sun does not shine and was doing antibiotics for over a month.  Not sure if > it is completely gone yet. > I am getting very tired.  Not just of trying to keep on but tired of the > doctors, the meds and the everything that has to do with autoimmune > diseases. > I am praying for you sweety and like most that Lupus does to you, it is > probably just taking a few wacks at you like a cat’s claw.  It hates to see > you getting too comfortable.  I think I will eat a pickle.  Heck with the > diverticulitis.  Wanna join me in some therapeutic brine and vinager? > HUGS! > Always, > cloud > "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message > news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… > > Hi > > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right. At > > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread > out > > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle. They > > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > > ……………………………. > > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my > scared > > mind. > > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > > a little easier.  But such is life right? > > What next > > me janers

Response:

Hey Rhonda with the M, I just did chinese chop suey.  and Guess WHat amazing just happened.  THE DOCTOR CALLED ME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And was not even three weeks later. Or the nurse instead. Will wonders ever cease? Do wrinkles ever go away? Happy to make your aquaintance! Always, cloud – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think I will eat a pickle.  Heck with the > diverticulitis.  Wanna join me in some therapeutic brine and vinager? > I have that too and I would think that would be a great laxitive (hehehe).

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Chop seuy? Owwwieee!!!!!!!!! Better get the wipes. "cloud" <pjas…@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message

news:aMLYc.19$Of3.5@tornado.tampabay.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Rhonda with the M, > I just did chinese chop suey.  and Guess WHat amazing just happened.  THE > DOCTOR CALLED ME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > And was not even three weeks later. Or the nurse instead. > Will wonders ever cease? > Do wrinkles ever go away? > Happy to make your aquaintance! > Always, > cloud > > I think I will eat a pickle.  Heck with the > > diverticulitis.  Wanna join me in some therapeutic brine and vinager? > > I have that too and I would think that would be a great laxitive (hehehe).

Response:

Will add you to my list of prayers also.  Do let us all know when you hear the results! Hugs, Sherry "RhondaM" <nos…@nospam.net> wrote in message

news:5WLXc.5910$wS1.3649@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I will keep you in my prayers! We both have this stuff to deal with I am > awaiting and undergoing test on a tumor on my neck. Best wishes and I will > keep you in my thoughts and prayers > ((((((HUGS))))))))))) > RhondaM > "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message > news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… > > Hi > > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right. At > > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread > out > > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle. They > > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > > ……………………………. > > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my > scared > > mind. > > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > > a little easier.  But such is life right? > > What next > > me janers

Response:

Janers, Will indeed keep you in my prayers and thoughts. I’m with you on not waiting for 6 months or for any extended period of time. When they find something it is time to get the answers not 6 months later!!!!  What are they thinking? Hugs and good vibes coming your way with the extra prayers! Sherry "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message

news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Response:

Hi Rhonda, You will be on my prayer list too. Let us know when you hear the results. BJ-Sk. Canada "RhondaM" <nos…@nospam.net> wrote in message

news:5WLXc.5910$wS1.3649@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I will keep you in my prayers! We both have this stuff to deal with I am > awaiting and undergoing test on a tumor on my neck. Best wishes and I will > keep you in my thoughts and prayers > ((((((HUGS))))))))))) > RhondaM > "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message > news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… > > Hi > > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right. At > > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread > out > > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle. They > > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > > ……………………………. > > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my > scared > > mind. > > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > > a little easier.  But such is life right? > > What next > > me janers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message <news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net>… > Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Hi Janers, I am Zinn, I don’t like posting so much in the group, and your post does not show up on google yet. I just went through something very similar as you described, it was a ‘Pappiloma’ growth, all clumped together,  my biopsy did not hurt, but I did have to have surgery to remove it. Toward the nipple in a duct. The tissue around the growth will also be biopsied. Prayers, as anything can be pre-cancerous these days, and the energies it takes to go through all of this is very draining. hugs, Zinn

Response:

I will keep you in my prayers! We both have this stuff to deal with I am awaiting and undergoing test on a tumor on my neck. Best wishes and I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers ((((((HUGS))))))))))) RhondaM "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message

news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Response:

janers you are indeed in my thoughts and prayers – went through this five years ago, hope yours is also benign! Leslie "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message

news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Response:

Hi Janers, I am sorry to hear you have yet another concern. I will keep you in my prayers for sure. I am glad you don’t have to wait too long for a biopsy. Best to know as soon as possible. BJ-Sk. Canada "janers" <rojak…@bright.net> wrote in message

news:_fWdnVo0xLetwrLcRVn-vQ@bright.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. > I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At > first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one > area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread out > a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… > I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more > magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped > together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a > funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They > wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so > ……………………………. > I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in > your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on > something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my scared > mind. > There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or > some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. > Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be > a little easier.  But such is life right? > What next > me janers

Response:

Hi Well if this were prizes and gifts I would be a happy woman. I just found out, I have an area on mammogram that is not quite right.  At first it might be calcium deposits but it is in a cluster and ALL in one area.  usually precancerous lesions are like that.  If they were spread out a dot at a place, here and there, then indeed it is calcium… I saw the first films and indeed it is very evident.   So they did more magnification and well it shows up big time again.  White spots, clumped together, some darker than others, reminds you of a bunch of dots in a funny odd looking so called Circled area.  Well not really a circle.  They wanted to wait another 6 months on this. Why?  beats me, so ……………………………. I am having a breast biopsy done Sept 2 and would like you to keep me in your prayers that this is just calcium deposits.  I am not one to wait on something as dangerous as this might be.  Peace of mind outweighs my scared mind. There is no breast cancer in the family but all the woman died either or some cancer and early in life.  I mean early. Well, my plate is full and I just wonder sometimes why everything can’t be a little easier.  But such is life right? What next me janers

Response:

Support for newly dx'd friend

Question:

Most places don’t offer clinical trials unless they do research at the facility. I hope you friend does well with surgery. Saturday surgery is a bit unusual. Glad to hear that you are there for her, Alex

I haven’t found this to be true – at least not where I live.  The local cancer center doesn’t do research but had a fistful of trials to choose from.  I’m not sure about other places, though. allan — we don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are. — Anais Nin

Response:

Perhaps, it is because I live so close to Boston, that anyone interested in a trial comes in town. If enrolled you can have treatment in the community. I have read though that many oncoligist do have trials ongoing in there clinics.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most places don’t offer clinical trials unless they do research at the facility. I hope you friend does well with surgery. Saturday surgery is a bit unusual. Glad to hear that you are there for her, Alex I haven’t found this to be true – at least not where I live.  The local cancer center doesn’t do research but had a fistful of trials to choose from.  I’m not sure about other places, though. allan — we don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are. — Anais Nin

Response:

not large, but the fact that the node metastasis is larger than the primary, and cells poorly differentiated, suggests it is very advanced despite its fairly small size.  I thought neoadjuvant chemo was intended to reduce the size of large tumours (or those attached to other structures) to simplify surgery.  In this case I don’t see any reason for deferring surgery but I would think she would want to throw everything at it afterwards. I would think any area for dispute would be in the chemo regime – this could well be one for the hard-and-heavy approach that I know you recommend – maybe some clinical trial? I agree.  I went with her today.  She had originally thought she was having surgery today; however, she had not gotten any instructions about it.   She met with the surgeon.   I went with her.  He is going to do the surgery tomorrow–on Saturday. He said at this point it is stage II based on at least one positive node and a 2 cm tumor which was ER-  He did talk of neoadjuvent chemo but said that would be just to shrink the tumor for breast conservation.  He recommended surgery and gave her choice of lumpectomy w/rads or mastectomy (w/unknown need for rads at this time).  He told her that chance of recurrence was significantly reduced with mastectomy but said as far as prognosis it was same for lumpectomy w/rads as it was for mastectomy.  He did not talk much of future surgery but did touch upon reconstruction which could be done at a later time along with mastectomy if indicated.  They will be doing chemo before the rads.  The oncologist came in briefly.  They will be putting in a port at same time as lumpectomy. She felt very comfortable with surgeon–and was much more at ease after he talked with her.  Interestingly, he did not mention anything of clinical trials, but he also said he didn’t want to overwhelm her and said to make one decision at a time. I am worried about her though.  She has been so fatigued and uncomfortable. Thanks for the feedback.

Response:

.  Interestingly, he did not mention anything of clinical trials, but he also said he didn’t want to overwhelm her and said to make one decision at a time. I am worried about her though.  She has been so fatigued and uncomfortable. Thanks for the feedback.

Most places don’t offer clinical trials unless they do research at the facility. I hope you friend does well with surgery. Saturday surgery is a bit unusual. Glad to hear that you are there for her, Alex

Response:

1.5 cm tumor in breast and at least one 3.0 cm node.  Surgery was recommended.  She was told it was undifferentiated and aggressive. … I am feeling a little torn.  I suggested that she might want to get a 2nd opinion after she asked me for advice.  I even gave her some names.  She told me that she felt comfortable with the dr. she sees.  I also suggested it again the following day–not in a forceful way–just suggested and said that in some cases of aggressive b.c. that chemo is done first and left it at that.

What do you think is wrong with this proposal?  The primary is not large, but the fact that the node metastasis is larger than the primary, and cells poorly differentiated, suggests it is very advanced despite its fairly small size.  I thought neoadjuvant chemo was intended to reduce the size of large tumours (or those attached to other structures) to simplify surgery.  In this case I don’t see any reason for deferring surgery but I would think she would want to throw everything at it afterwards. I would think any area for dispute would be in the chemo regime – this could well be one for the hard-and-heavy approach that I know you recommend – maybe some clinical trial? Tim

Response:

In a few hours I will be leaving to spend the night with a good friend/colleague who was just dx’d with breast cancer.  She asked if I would come be with her.  Tomorrow is her surgery–lumpectomy and "node removal."   She called me when she noticed the lump.  She went in right away and was set up for a biopsy which she had last Friday.  She received the results this week–1.5 cm tumor in breast and at least one 3.0 cm node.  Surgery was recommended.  She was told it was undifferentiated and aggressive.  She did not have any of the parameters.  She lives about 90 miles away.  She was dx’d by her internist.  I believe a radiologist did the biopsy.  She has not yet seen the surgeon.  He comes to the area once/week (or once/month?) from a major cancer center (City of Hope). I am feeling a little torn.  I suggested that she might want to get a 2nd opinion after she asked me for advice.  I even gave her some names.  She told me that she felt comfortable with the dr. she sees.  I also suggested it again the following day–not in a forceful way–just suggested and said that in some cases of aggressive b.c. that chemo is done first and left it at that.  She doesn’t know what kind she has.  She did say that there was some skin discoloration but it had been more brown and not red. She told me that she just wants "it" out.  I understand where she is coming from–been there/done that.  Since I am not a dr. and she was scheduled for surgery by a surgeon from a well-reknown cancer center I didn’t feel comfortable with encouraging a second opinion any more than  I had already done.  Part of me thinks that maybe I should have just made the appt. for her and insisted she come.  I am sure she would have–but that is just not ‘me’ and the thought just popped into my mind today. I am guessing, though, that they will have the results tomorrow of what they need and if neoadjuvent chemo is recommended they would do it then.  She asked what questions she might ask the dr.  I suggested several.  She emailed the dr. but did not receive any response. She was in good shape and exercised regularly.   In fact she was a former model and actress.  More recently, though, she was heavily stressed.  Both of us wound up pulling all nighters typing reports because of exceptionally large case loads. At the time of my dx one of the major universities was studying the influx of women in this part of So.Cal who had been dx’d with IBC.  I wasn’t included at the time  That was probably because that component of mine wasn’t dx’d until after  surgery had been completed and wasn’t listed as the primary type of b.c. I do wonder though if there may be some environmental contributor to what is going on.  She lives by a major air force base–where the shuttle lands when it does so on the West Coast and where the stealth bomber used to first fly (around time of Gulf War when its existence was still denied).  What an awesome aircraft, though.  It was amazing to watch it fly–kind of a cross between a butterfly, bat, and walffle.  In our area, we live within about 10 to 15? miles of a former site where rockets (and possibly related supplies were manufactured.  Excuse the tangent…just reminiscing. Anyway, just  wanted to share my thoughts re. friends situation and my concern about not being more ‘forceful.’ Then again, sometimes one has to trust the system…now if I could only do that for me…

Response:

The purpose of massage for lymphodema suffers.

Question:

Robin, Find a hospital that specializes in breast cancer. They MAY also have specialist physiotherapists who can address your wife’s lymphedema properly. An oncologist mixes chemicals; a surgeon cuts; SOME nurses are VERY knowledgable, others aren’t. Sometimes I think it’s a crapshoot. — But I’m sorry you’re so upset about this. I think your best bet is to find someone who knows what they’re talking about, someone TRAINED about and in the proper usage of lymphadema massage. If the hospital doesn’t have someone, perhaps they can tell you who does or refer you to someone. Good luck, God bless, Lady8

Response:

…Christine’s self massage had gone from 5 minutes down to about 30 seconds by virtue of Christine making the same number of massage strokes at ten times the speed. I also wonder however if it is a case of a specialist knowing more than the breast nurses about underlying mechanisms.  It has often seem to me that the breast nurses work to a set of rules without fully understanding why (they often seem to contradict each other).  Are they taught simplistic models because of the complexity?

Or quite possibly because no-one knows for sure.  I think this, like a lot of medical advice, is based on rather hand-waving theory rather than on solid research.  So ideas get accepted and passed down through the hierarchy, changing as they go from theories to rules. The same applies to sleeve wearing.  These are probably very personal things.  You could take a scientific approach and work out what works best for her, eg by measuring her arm circumference frequently at several points and finding out what effect the massage, the sleeve and the lack of sleeve are having.  It should give a good indication of immediate lymph pressure, and graphed over time can allow you to adjust the treatment to suit her as conditions change.  Or you can just follow a set of rules and not think too much about cancer. I don’t know whether massage stimulates the growth of lymph vessels ar just pumps the lymph, or both.  It would seem sensible that exercise would stimulate the growth of lymph vessels, and that anything that pumps the lymph will help reduce the lymphedema risk. Tim Jackson

Response:

Hello All, I’ve just been, with my wife, to the oncologist for her 6 month check-up following a rather delayed radiotherapy (started at 17 weeks post op). Two things concern me (at least): First, the surgeon suggested an appointment at 6 months, which we cancelled after the oncologist said she would see her first (remember late radiotherapy).  Apparently she is to see the oncologist again in 3 months time followed by the surgeon at 12 months.  There seems not to be any concern about Christine’s progress which I believe.  Had she seen the surgeon, what would he have been looking for rather than the oncologist?  Is the suggested check-up pattern ’standard’ care? Second, I remarked to the oncologist that Christine’s self massage had gone from 5 minutes down to about 30 seconds by virtue of Christine making the same number of massage strokes at ten times the speed.  I have a picture from the breast nurses of the massage shifting the lymph fluid across the body to the available nodes. As I also have a picture of the lymph as being something of a viscous fluid, it seemed to me that rapid fire was inappropriate.  The oncologist said it didn’t matter and that, in part, the real purpose of the massage was to stimulate the production of new lymph channels, a concept that she said she found unlikely.  She also said that it didn’t matter how it was done as long as it suited the individual.  She said that massage probably provided little benefit except to make the patient feel that they were doing something towards improving their condition. Her main advice was to try to forget all about having breast cancer except for the regular check-ups and just get on with life.  Sound advice but mistakes happen and shortcuts are often taken. This leaves me in something of a confused state.  We had both hoped that massage (done as scientifically as possible) might reduce the time that Christine has to wear her sleeve (12 hours a day).  Have I misunderstood the oncologist or put the wrong stress on her words?  Knowing that Christine is stuck with this problem for the rest of her life, we want to be doing the correct thing from the outset. Against my will (and for no informed reason) I feel less confidence in the oncologist now.  I also wonder however if it is a case of a specialist knowing more than the breast nurses about underlying mechanisms.  It has often seem to me that the breast nurses work to a set of rules without fully understanding why (they often seem to contradict each other).  Are they taught simplistic models because of the complexity? All the foregoing makes me sound a bit nit-picking but I am trying to put together what I’ve heard.  There must be an optimum path through this horrible disease but I’m drowning in information without getting a real handle on it. All comments gratefully received. Regards, Robin Aston.

Response:

Breast Cancer Mets to Spine

Question:

Anyone with breast cancer mets to spine? I’ve had breast, chest wall, and brain. Now there is something to spine. Please someone answer me.

If you’re not getting Zometa once a month, you should at least ask about it.  Keeps your bones strong and helps keep the cancer from "attaching" to the bone. – Tony

Response:

least ask about it.  Keeps your bones strong and helps keep the cancer from "attaching" to the bone. –   Thanks for sharing.  I am not sure what the policies are for getting that regularly, though, even with mets.

Response:

least ask about it.  Keeps your bones strong and helps keep the cancer from "attaching" to the bone. –   Thanks for sharing.  I am not sure what the policies are for getting that regularly, though, even with mets.

They’ll probably try to give you Aredia instead (it’s cheaper).  It also takes four times as long to run the chemo and is not as effective.  The heck with policies — go to your local library, get a computer, log on to medline and do a search on "Zometa."  You may have to use google to find out the chemical name as many medline articles don’t reference brand names. You’re looking for large-scale clinical trials that show Zometa is better.  Gloria’s doc knew that already and started her on Zometa as soon as it became available. Love & Light Tony

Response:

Anyone with breast cancer mets to spine? I’ve had breast, chest wall, and brain. Now there is something to spine. Please someone answer me.

Response:

Anyone with breast cancer mets to spine? I’ve had breast, chest wall, and brain. Now there is something to spine. Please someone answer me.

Hello kathy, I don’t often post here, but since it’s quiet due to holidays, I’m here to tell you that Tim (wife) and possibly marvin will be here to share their experiences with spine mets. This web page may be of interest to you, to prepare your list of questions. http://bonetumor.org/tumors/pages/page61.html part of which says "Breast cancer metastasis most commonly affects the spine, ribs, pelvis, and proximal long bones. " Perhaps in the meantime, you could clarify which scans you’ve had and whether bone mets have been confirmed. In other words, have they ruled out other possible problems if you are having pain (like disc problems, osteoporosis etc)? And/or are the scans definitive? It’s my understanding (and I may be wrong) that bone mets are treated by radiation therapy when there’s bone pain. Hugs to you. J-not an expert

Response:

Anyone with breast cancer mets to spine? I’ve had breast, chest wall, and brain. Now there is something to spine. Please someone answer me.

My wife had spinal mets, that was the first indication she had that her cancer had metastasised.  It is one of the most common sites.  Bone mets won’t of themselves kill you, but they can cause a lot of pain and structural failures.  Radiotherapy to the affected bones can set back individual tumours for a couple of years or so, and generally does a great deal to remove the pain.  But you can only have radiotherapy once to each area, after that it would damage the spinal cord or other soft tissues. Lesser, on-structurally-threatening pains are dealt by morphine or related analgesics.  When it got bad we found Fentanyl skin patches very good, much less side effects than slow-release morphine.  If you do get onto opiates, beware of constipation, doctors sometimes forget about this side effect and only react when it happens.  But it is a lot better to take a mild dose of laxatives regularly with the analgesic from the start because it takes days of discomfort to get back to ‘normal’ bowel function once the problem has occurred, then you tend to oscillate to either side of normality for weeks until you find the right laxative dosage to keep you ‘regular’. You can read my stories about my wife’s cancer at http://www.tim-jackson.co.uk/cancer.html Tim Jackson

Response:

Sentinel Node Biopsy in the US

Question:

I’m thinking, since they left it 3 years anyway, get the results from the sentinel node biopsy (4 or 5 nodes) and they look bad, then they can have the rest. I’m terrified of lymphodema. I am active, lift weights and carry a 70 kg backpack between continents. I don’t want to stay out of airplanes, hot tubs or hot climates.

Don’t believe everything you read.  There’s starting to be some good evidence (though mostly retrospective studies so far) that exercise doesn’t trigger lymphedema.  And Dana Farber Cancer Institute is doing a prospective study on rowers (in which I’m enrolled). I row, weight train, fly, and haven’t had any problems.   I had 9 nodes removed.  I’ve stayed away from heavy backpacks so far (due to some history of my hands swelling slightly under exertion even pre-surgery), so don’t have any anecdotes on that front.  Day packs (books, etc.) have been OK.  (And I’m staying out of hot climates because I don’t like ‘em!) So far, no new lymphedema cases on my BC survivor rowing team.    At least one team member had pre-existing lymphedema, and doesn’t seem to feel that rowing is a problem for her.  The BC survivor dragon boating teams in Canada also report few/no lymphedema problems — anecdotal evidence, but pretty large scale anecdotes. Ann T.

Response:

Everything about my case seems ‘odd.’  I think the surgeon told me she just removed the first level and based on ‘naked-eye’ went as far as they appeared ‘positive’ or enlarged.  I think she mentioned that she just removed the first 2 levels.  I am guessing that there was at least one other level.

I thought ‘positive’ was determined by path lab, microscope and staining, not just by visible enlargement. The path. report had a worksheet.  The boxes checked stated: "Metastasis is to movable ipsilateral  axillary lymph node(s)." "The metastasis is less than 2 cm, but extension of tumor is beyond the capsule of a lymph node."  There was another box that could be checked but wasn’t–that the nodes were fixed to one another–at least the ones removed were not.

If the metastasis to several nodes have merged then the stage is IIIa even if the primary tumour stages lower.  That is what that box is for.  They’d have to be severely enlarged before that happened.  I don’t think that is what the scan report was referring to. Tim

Response:

axillary drainage pathway, which would not need to be removed, but I don’t see why those should be enlarged.  I cannot imagine that a surgeon would leave positive nodes in place.  Or that if they were positive that they would not have continued to grow. Everything about my case seems ‘odd.’  I think the surgeon told me she just removed the first level and based on ‘naked-eye’ went as far as they appeared ‘positive’ or enlarged.  I think she mentioned that she just removed the first 2 levels.  I am guessing that there was at least one other level. The path. report had a worksheet.  The boxes checked stated: "Metastasis is to movable ipsilateral  axillary lymph node(s)." "The metastasis is less than 2 cm, but extension of tumor is beyond the capsule of a lymph node."  There was another box that could be checked but wasn’t–that the nodes were fixed to one another–at least the ones removed were not.    There seems to be lots of contradictory information between the path report and the scans.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "axillary clearance".  In the case of the sentinel node procedure they only do this if the sentinel node is positive.  If he removed 12 then there probably only were 12, the number present is quite variable. Except my first CT scan report states: "there is increased residual soft tissue matrial in the right axilla compared to the left whcih are presumed to be matted enlarged lymph nodes." That sounds to me like all the lymph nodes were not removed and although 9 of the 12 removed were positive, that there were more positive ones that were left in, no?

That does seem odd.  They may be lymph nodes in the arm or back axillary drainage pathway, which would not need to be removed, but I don’t see why those should be enlarged.  I cannot imagine that a surgeon would leave positive nodes in place.  Or that if they were positive that they would not have continued to grow. Tim

Response:

i had 9 nodes removed and NONE were affected, including the sentinel node. Ann

Response:

"axillary clearance".  In the case of the sentinel node procedure they only do this if the sentinel node is positive.  If he removed 12 then there probably only were 12, the number present is quite variable.   Except my first CT scan report states: "there is increased residual soft tissue matrial in the right axilla compared to the left whcih are presumed to be matted enlarged lymph nodes." That sounds to me like all the lymph nodes were not removed and although 9 of the 12 removed were positive, that there were more positive ones that were left in, no?

Response:

Lorraineand all… I am a bit confused, you said you had a sentinal node biopsy which they take one maybe two nodes ( the purpose is to limit the number of nodes) and you had 5 removed. Glad to hear that overall you are doing well. As far as lymphoedema goes, Kaye quesioned why more research is being done, I think the whole point is that sentinl node  is to limit the number of women who have their nodes removed  causing the number of women with lymphedema. Considering the number of women who post her and the percentage of women who acutally have this issue the  group has a much higher rate then the general population which is about 5-10%. Ann is scheduled for a Level 2 …more extensive examination which is the right treatment considering the stage of her diisease. Alex

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complete disection. I had 9 out of 12 positive nodes.  I am not sure how they deteremined how many to remove. I guess the surgeon stopped after they did not look infected? After the surgery, though, the area was a mess so am thinking that, perhaps, more positive ones were left in???

I think they normally remove all that they can find, this is "axillary clearance".  In the case of the sentinel node procedure they only do this if the sentinel node is positive.  If he removed 12 then there probably only were 12, the number present is quite variable. Tim Jackson

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complete disection.   I had 9 out of 12 positive nodes.  I am not sure how they deteremined how many to remove. I guess the surgeon stopped after they did not look infected?  After the surgery, though, the area was a mess so am thinking that, perhaps, more positive ones were left in???

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remove, there is the possibility of lymphedema…it basically says that it’s a crapshoot as to whether or not you’ll ever get it, how severe it will be or whether or not it will be transient or permanent. I have also read — newer reseach — which suggests that there may be a genetic connection in terms of your body’s propensity to form scar tissue.  I had also read it may depend on surgical techniques as well.  Both those factors may contribute to the unpredictability of when or for whom it happens.   I wish that there was more research going on re. how to better treat.  I really think that it is something that can be better controlled.  After all–if a man could be sent to the moon…there should be a better way to remediate if it happens.  Treatment level is not that far beyond the primitive stages.  I did read of potentially successful surgical interventions–one involved liposuction; another involved laser surgery.  Either way, I do understand your concerns about it–it isn’t much fun…

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I hate to tell you but it doesn’t matter how many they remove, there is the possibility of lymphedema.  I had my sentinel node done in September.  They only took out 5 nodes (all were negative).  I was fine for a while but about 3 weeks ago, the hand on the sentinel node surgery side started to get puffy.  They’ve told me that it’s lymphedema and I have to go to PT to get instructions on how to deal with it.  Now, grant you, it’s a very mild case. It’s just in my hand and a bit in my wrist, there’s no pain and I haven’t had any swelling in the arm so that I haven’t had any trouble with getting my clothes on.  However, if you read through the information (www.breastcancer.org is a very good site with lots of info) on lymphedema, it basically says that it’s a crapshoot as to whether or not you’ll ever get it, how severe it will be or whether or not it will be transient or permanent.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. I haven’t had any surgery yet, but all my doctors want me to remove all the lymph nodes, levels one and two. I’m afraid of lymphodema. Losing a breast is bad enough.

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Hi Anne: I participated in a clinical trial for sentinel node biopsy when I had my mastectomy 2 years ago.  I had two sentinel nodes that drained from the tumor. They removed 8 nodes, 1 of the sentinel nodes showed microscopic metastisis (sp?). I understand that it is now standard protocol to do a sentinel node biopsy when doing any type of breast cancer surgery at the big hospital I used as well as the large affiliated hospital across town.   I was under the assumption that this was true for all breast cancer surgeries in the U.S. I also know that when being diagnosed with melanoma, a cancer larger than 1 mm requires a sentinel node biopsy. Sassy

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Hi Anne "I don’t mind the lymph nodes under my breast being removed, but am worried about the ones in the armpit. It’s my right arm, and I’m right handed."

I had a a sentential node biopsy done along with a lumpectomy in November.  I only had 2 nodes removed and both were negative thank goodness.  The only problem I had was a little bit of swelling in the armpit.  It went down by itself and by doing exercises I have full use of the arm and complete mobility. I hope this helps. Darla

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Hi Anthony, What is a MRM? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but I think in your wife’s case, auxillary dissection was the right decision in spite of the risks of lymphodema.

Modified radical mastectomy.  And I hope you’re right, but of course I’ll never know and I reproach myself for not having pushed harder to understand why this procedure was recommended.

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Hi Anthony, What is a MRM? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but I think in your wife’s case, auxillary dissection was the right decision in spite of the risks of lymphodema. Anne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you tell me if it’s common to get a Sentinel Node Biopsy in the US, without auxillary node dissection following? Don’t believe so, but perhaps it should be, or at least the patient should be more carefully consulted than we were.  In my wif’e’s case the surgeon (a man of excellent rep in a hot shot hospital) explained that during the surgery the sentinel node would be dissected and examined for cancer then and there; if it was positive he would dissect the other nodes.  So she had a MRM, the node was positive and in all 21 were dissected of which 10 were positive.  When he came to the waiting room to tell me about the operation I asked for a prognosis and he said that of 100 women with a condition similar to my wifes the disease would kill 50, most within two years; oh and by the way she might get a fat arm because of the node dissection and we should watch out for that.  So that was my introduction to lymphedema.  Fact is that the oncologists we’ve seen, particularly the surgeons don’t give a rap for lymphedema.  While I can understand the need to test the sentinal node; after all if it’s positive that would suggest a much more aggressive approach to treatment than if not, but it’s not at all clear to me what is achieved by dissecting the other nodes other than to satisfy the medical profession’s thirst for information and the exposure of the patient to a life long concern about a very unpleasant condition.  I have not revisited the decision with our docs and nor have I burdened my wife with my thoughts that the dissection might have been quite unnecessary but with 20/20 hindsight I wish very much that I had better prepared myself for the pre-surgery discussion.  I believe there is a lesson that you can take from this, as you still have time.

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They will do what I want to do, I think. I don’t mind the lymph nodes under my breast being removed, but am worried about the ones in the armpit. It’s my right arm, and I’m right handed. I don’t feel I have the best of luck, and I hear 30% ARE affected by lymphodema. But they do suggest I remove them all. I had an MRI which showed no involvement in the armpit. Also, bone scans and chest xrays showed nothing beyond the right breast. Is a PET scan better for this than an MRI??? Anne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – pathology after removing my breast. I can’t believe it takes so long. Only in Canada? Yikes!  I had my surgery done late on Wednesday–the surgeon finished at 6:30 p.m.  I had the pathology results 48 hours later.  I really wished that they had waited until AFTER the weekend, but oh well–guess earlier is better than later. <<I’m thinking, since they left it 3 years anyway, get the results from the sentinel node biopsy (4 or 5 nodes) and they look bad, then they can have the rest. I’m terrified of lymphodema. I am active, lift weights and carry a 70 kg backpack between continents. I don’t want to stay out of airplanes, hot tubs or hot climates. I have had a problem with lymphedema.  No fun!  I have gone for the wrapping treatment and it  definately works.  It can be a bit of a pain.  I have been doing the wrapping for the past 6 weeks now because it had had worsened. I should say my husband has been doing it for me daily and sometimes twice a day.  We cheat.  I don’t wrap my fingers–can’t use the computer–and although I don’t have to be here–I do have to type reports for work.  I suppose I could get a voice activated program or even a secretary through accommodations but that would crimp my style and be more of a burden.  So, I wear a special glove–if needed or leave my hands alone. <<So if the first ones are affected I’ll get the other nodes out. I don’t know if you can get one, but a  PET scan might be helpful. <<They want to do Level One and Level Two nodes. I don’t mind the ones under the breast as they’re taking the breast anyway. Did you ask if they are can do those?

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Hi. I haven’t had any surgery yet, but all my doctors want me to remove all the lymph nodes, levels one and two. I’m afraid of lymphodema. Losing a breast is bad enough. My surgery is about a month away. Here, they do all the appropriate tests. I think there are two dyes they use? But here in Ontario, they want to do the test to see which are affected with cancer. If no cancer is seen, they still want to remove all the lymph nodes in the armpit. They say because my cancer is advanced (7 tumours, both invasive and DCIS). Then, they say, they will do the pathology and see which ones are cancerous, ie a count of affected nodes. In your area, do they remove all the nodes even if they look alright? Because here they claim they still remove them all because it’s still in the testing stage, and have a 30% margin of error, where the cancer doesn’t go through the first 4 sentinel nodes for some reason. Anne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sentinel Node means that when they inject the dye they try to figure out the node that feeds into the other nodes. In the breast, a network of lymphatic vessels drain fluid and cells to the bean-shaped lymph nodes in the axilla (armpit). The "sentinel" node is the very first lymph node(s) to receive drainage from a cancer-containing area of the breast. Put another way, when breast cancer cells begin to escape from the primary tumor site in the breast they travel to the lymph nodes under the arm; the first lymph node they reach is the ’sentinel’ lymph node. I am assuming since they removed 4-5 -on you which means they  all reacted to the dye injected that these are positive nodes. The fact you had more than one node makes the test inconclusive since they really don’t know which is the sentinel node. Sentinel node is quickly becoming the standard of care here in the Boston area in Major medical centers, the outlying hospitals may not have the equipment to perform the procedure. If one has a positive node  one is recommended to have the complete disection. I have had not one issue since my surgery 7 years ago, and I was concerned since I am very active. Some feel removing the nodes improves your overall recovery. Good luck with your decision making, Alex

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all reacted to the dye injected that these are positive nodes. The fact you had more than one node makes the test inconclusive since they really don’t know which is the sentinel node. I am assuming you are responding to my post about the dye going all over the place.  Actually the surgeon took out 12 nodes, and 9 were positive. I am wondering, though, if more were positive because my first CT scan report indicated that there was still activity going on in that area at that time and it was of concern.  That CT scan was done a week after surgery, so I don’t know if the activity could have beend due to the surgery and resultant healing.  I am not sure if the area was included in the CT scans done afterwards.

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Can you tell me if it’s common to get a Sentinel Node Biopsy in the US, without auxillary node dissection following?

Don’t believe so, but perhaps it should be, or at least the patient should be more carefully consulted than we were.  In my wif’e’s case the surgeon (a man of excellent rep in a hot shot hospital) explained that during the surgery the sentinel node would be dissected and examined for cancer then and there; if it was positive he would dissect the other nodes.  So she had a MRM, the node was positive and in all 21 were dissected of which 10 were positive.  When he came to the waiting room to tell me about the operation I asked for a prognosis and he said that of 100 women with a condition similar to my wifes the disease would kill 50, most within two years; oh and by the way she might get a fat arm because of the node dissection and we should watch out for that.  So that was my introduction to lymphedema.  Fact is that the oncologists we’ve seen, particularly the surgeons don’t give a rap for lymphedema.  While I can understand the need to test the sentinal node; after all if it’s positive that would suggest a much more aggressive approach to treatment than if not, but it’s not at all clear to me what is achieved by dissecting the other nodes other than to satisfy the medical profession’s thirst for information and the exposure of the patient to a life long concern about a very unpleasant condition.  I have not revisited the decision with our docs and nor have I burdened my wife with my thoughts that the dissection might have been quite unnecessary but with 20/20 hindsight I wish very much that I had better prepared myself for the pre-surgery discussion.  I believe there is a lesson that you can take from this, as you still have time.

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pathology after removing my breast. I can’t believe it takes so long. Only in Canada? Yikes!  I had my surgery done late on Wednesday–the surgeon finished at 6:30 p.m.  I had the pathology results 48 hours later.  I really wished that they had waited until AFTER the weekend, but oh well–guess earlier is better than later. <<I’m thinking, since they left it 3 years anyway, get the results from the sentinel node biopsy (4 or 5 nodes) and they look bad, then they can have the rest. I’m terrified of lymphodema. I am active, lift weights and carry a 70 kg backpack between continents. I don’t want to stay out of airplanes, hot tubs or hot climates. I have had a problem with lymphedema.  No fun!  I have gone for the wrapping treatment and it  definately works.  It can be a bit of a pain.  I have been doing the wrapping for the past 6 weeks now because it had had worsened.  I should say my husband has been doing it for me daily and sometimes twice a day.  We cheat.  I don’t wrap my fingers–can’t use the computer–and although I don’t have to be here–I do have to type reports for work.  I suppose I could get a voice activated program or even a secretary through accommodations but that would crimp my style and be more of a burden.  So, I wear a special glove–if needed or leave my hands alone. <<So if the first ones are affected I’ll get the other nodes out.   I don’t know if you can get one, but a  PET scan might be helpful. <<They want to do Level One and Level Two nodes. I don’t mind the ones under the breast as they’re taking the breast anyway. Did you ask if they are can do those?

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Sentinel Node means that when they inject the dye they try to figure out the node that feeds into the other nodes. In the breast, a network of lymphatic vessels drain fluid and cells to the bean-shaped lymph nodes in the axilla (armpit). The "sentinel" node is the very first lymph node(s) to receive drainage from a cancer-containing area of the breast. Put another way, when breast cancer cells begin to escape from the primary tumor site in the breast they travel to the lymph nodes under the arm; the first lymph node they reach is the ’sentinel’ lymph node. I am assuming since they removed 4-5 -on you which means they  all reacted to the dye injected that these are positive nodes. The fact you had more than one node makes the test inconclusive since they really don’t know which is the sentinel node. Sentinel node is quickly becoming the standard of care here in the Boston area in Major medical centers, the outlying hospitals may not have the equipment to perform the procedure. If one has a positive node  one is recommended to have the complete disection. I have had not one issue since my surgery 7 years ago, and I was concerned since I am very active. Some feel removing the nodes improves your overall recovery. Good luck with your decision making, Alex

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They say they need to wait a month to get the results from pathology after removing my breast. I can’t believe it takes so long. Only in Canada? I’m thinking, since they left it 3 years anyway, get the results from the sentinel node biopsy (4 or 5 nodes) and they look bad, then they can have the rest. I’m terrified of lymphodema. I am active, lift weights and carry a 70 kg backpack between continents. I don’t want to stay out of airplanes, hot tubs or hot climates. So if the first ones are affected I’ll get the other nodes out. They want to do Level One and Level Two nodes. I don’t mind the ones under the breast as they’re taking the breast anyway. Anne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anne, when I had my surgery almost 3 years ago my surgeon tried it, and it didn’t work.  Apparently, one reason it can fail is if there are several positive nodes, and that is what I had.  If I remember correctly, the dye went all over the place.  My surgeon went ahead and did an axillary node dissection at time of bilateral mastectomy (without reconstruction).  I had 9 of 12 that were positive.  I am not sure I had a ‘choice’ although could have refused, I suppose.  Everyone was quite surprised that my cancer was as aggressive and as involved as it was.  Again, my situation was not the norm–but it was probably a ‘good’ thing that I have gotten aggressive treatment.  My only regret was that there was a 23-day delay between biopsy and surgery because there was that much involvement and it was so aggressive.

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Anne, when I had my surgery almost 3 years ago my surgeon tried it, and it didn’t work.  Apparently, one reason it can fail is if there are several positive nodes, and that is what I had.  If I remember correctly, the dye went all over the place.  My surgeon went ahead and did an axillary node dissection at time of bilateral mastectomy (without reconstruction).  I had 9 of 12 that were positive.  I am not sure I had a ‘choice’ although could have refused, I suppose.  Everyone was quite surprised that my cancer was as aggressive and as involved as it was.  Again, my situation was not the norm–but it was probably a ‘good’ thing that I have gotten aggressive treatment.  My only regret was that there was a 23-day delay between biopsy and surgery because there was that much involvement and it was so aggressive.

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because it is still in the research stage, and it has such a high margin of error (around 30%). I didn’t thin the error margin was that high for sentinel node, but if it is that is fairly significant.  I am not sure if removing positive nodes is important if the cancer is confined to the nodes only and you will be getting more chemo.  Then again, it also depends on whether the type of chemo is effective for the type of cancer cells you have.  Even if the axillary nodes were negative, recent research has shown that one can still have positive internal mammary nodes–am guessing that error rate was something like–well am not going to guess but will see if I can find article….will have to see if I can find it…tried…and am not having immediate success…if interested and can’t find, let me know…

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Can you tell me if it’s common to get a Sentinel Node Biopsy in the US, without auxillary node dissection following? Although I am refusing an auxillary node dissection , it is customary to do it following sentinel node biopsy here in Ontario, Canada. I have been told because it is still in the research stage, and it has such a high margin of error (around 30%). Anne

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