Opinions about DRE

Question:

"Steve Kramer" wrote Nick, DRE’s are uncomfortable, but an absolute necessity in screening for PCa. PSA and DRE go hand-in-hand.  Find a doc that doesn’t mind getting his finger dirty.

Even better, find one who uses a GLOVE. SHEESH!  ;-) I.P.

Response:

"Steve Kramer" wrote Nick, DRE’s are uncomfortable, but an absolute necessity in screening for PCa. PSA and DRE go hand-in-hand.  Find a doc that doesn’t mind getting his finger dirty. Even better, find one who uses a GLOVE. SHEESH!  ;-)

Excellent idea!  I’ll pass that onto my uro.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Steve Kramer" wrote Nick, DRE’s are uncomfortable, but an absolute necessity in screening for PCa. PSA and DRE go hand-in-hand.  Find a doc that doesn’t mind getting his finger dirty. Even better, find one who uses a GLOVE. SHEESH!  ;-) Excellent idea!  I’ll pass that onto my uro.

Heh!  Buddy of mine told the urologist, "If I feel two hands on my back, you’re dead!"

Response:

My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit them. Your comments would be most welcome.

  Reminds me that as a younger man, my primary was a very young cardiologist, that took over the practice from my old time internist. He also told me that a PSA was enough and no DRE was needed.  My now doc is an old timer that insisted on a DRE even though I told him I didn’t have a prostate anymore. I wonder if the younger guys are somehow a bit shy about the procedure? — "I’m not pompous and agrogant,  I’m SNARKY" JK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Response:

Nick, DRE’s are uncomfortable, but an absolute necessity in screening for PCa. PSA and DRE go hand-in-hand.  Find a doc that doesn’t mind getting his finger dirty.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit them. Your comments would be most welcome.

Response:

My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit them. Your comments would be most welcome.

Maybe he don’t like doing DREs.  Find another doc. —

Response:

  Reminds me that as a younger man, my primary was a very young cardiologist, that took over the practice from my old time internist. He also told me that a PSA was enough and no DRE was needed.  My now doc is an old timer that insisted on a DRE even though I told him I didn’t have a prostate anymore. I wonder if the younger guys are somehow a bit shy about the procedure?

I was a bit surprised to be invited to "assume the position" with my urologist, after having had the RRP.  As he explained to me, he was looking for nothing and hoped to find it as he examined the prostate bed. Two weeks ago I had my annual physical and my GP – who is quite aware of my PCa history as he is the gent who raised the alarm and sent me off to the urologist – performed a DRE even though he knew I’d been recently examined by the urologist.  His explanation is that prostate trouble is not the only problem which can be diagnosed (at least partially) via the DRE. So….  (dare I say it?  What the hell!)  "Grin and bear it!"

Response:

Nicky, DRE is much needed – my PCa was detected by DRE while my PSA was 0.5. In my opinion a PSA test alone is not sufficient – you need a "talented finger" to feel your prostate.  My PCP did not like what he felt and sent me to a Urologist.  What came next was a DRE, TRUS biopsy, then prostatectomy. It is your body and your life – insist on DRE during annual physical.  I am glad I did. Good Luck, Sammy J. Hutcheson PCa 5/2000

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit them. Your comments would be most welcome.

Response:

I’ve only been a member here for about a week, and I’ll share my story soon.  But I wanted to pass along a link to the American Cancer Society cancer detection guidelines that indicate the PSA and DRE should be performed — they are complimentary tests.  Other groups suggest the combo as well.  And a normal DRE should not forgive an abnormal PSA, and a normal PSA should not forgive an abnormal DRE.  Same thing with mammograms and breast lumps in women. http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_2_3X_ACS_Cancer_Detecti… I would ask any physician who does not do a rectal exam as part of a routine annual physical whether he thinks that screening for colorectal cancer might be another indication for a rectal exam, at which time a stool specimen could be checked for the presence of blood.  Colorectal cancer is the third leading cause of cancer in men and the third leading cause of cancer death in men. Even though a urologist is probably more adept at performing a DRE than a primary care doc, I’m not willing to forego a rectal exam by my physician just because he may be less experienced — an abnormal exam is an abnormal exam, regardless of who finds it.  There is no substitute for a complete physical exam, regardless of the number of blood and urine tests and x-rays and other scans we might get. We must be our own health care advocates. Be well guys.

Response:

My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. Your comments would be most welcome.

I’ve had the government up my butt so much that the DRE is a Ho-Humm.

Response:

My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit them. Your comments would be most welcome.

I think your doctor is right most of the time.  Most men with cancer will experience a rising PSA before there is anything that can be felt in a DRE.  However, as your friend demonstrated, there can be exceptions. The DRE is a cheap and easy test, so most doctors do it.  However I have to also say that most doctors probably can’t tell the difference between a prostate with no tumor and a prostate that has a tumor.  A typical general practitioner may do hundreds of DRE’s, but has never had the opportunity to do them carefully on men that are known to have cancer and compare what he felt to what showed up on an ultrasound, x-ray, or MRI test.  So you could switch to another doctor who does DREs, and still not be any better off. The first urologist I saw, a man who should have been an expert at doing DREs found nothing on mine, although two different radiation oncologists who examined me a month later did find a tumor – both in the same spot.  They later pinpointed it exactly with an MRI. The same problem occurs with breast exams for women. Studies have shown that most doctors just don’t have the focused experience to be able to perform a breast exam correctly and diagnose what they find. If I were you I would consider this behavior by your doctor to be a bit suboptimal but not wildly so.  It may not, by itself, be grounds for switching doctors. Unfortunately, really competent doctors who keep up with their studies and think hard about their patients are in somewhat short supply.     Alan

Response:

My Man to Man group recommends that for the DRE and PSA monitoring men should use their urologist.  That makes a lot of sense.  My wife’s new PCP, a young guy, doesnt do the pelvic exam her former PCP did.  He’s part of a medical group, and I assume he expects my wife to use the GYN doc for that. Also makes sense to me.  However, it is more expensive that way. But not by that much when you consider what’s at risk.

Problem is, most men do not routinely see a Urologist unless they are having urological problems. Many insurance plans require that covered routine physicals and screenings be performed by a Primary Care Physician, not a Specialist. Incidentally, insurance companies also generally recognize Gynecologists as Primary Care Physicians. — JerryW Please respond to newsgroup; email address is fake 2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62) 2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe 5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes 7/13/04 PSA <0.1 10/12/04 PSA <0.1 1/18/05 PSA <0.1 4/26/05 PSA <0.1 10/13/05 PSA <0.1

Response:

My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit them. Your comments would be most welcome.

My Man to Man group recommends that for the DRE and PSA monitoring men should use their urologist.  That makes a lot of sense.  My wife’s new PCP, a young guy, doesnt do the pelvic exam her former PCP did.  He’s part of a medical group, and I assume he expects my wife to use the GYN doc for that. Also makes sense to me.  However, it is more expensive that way.  But not by that much when you consider what’s at risk.

Response:

Not all PCA has a high PSA, plus DRE screens for rectal cancer too. Ergo I expect it. Steve U

Response:

Nicky, My PCP is a female Family Practitioner. My PSA was 2.6 in February 2003, and again in February 2004. During my annual physical in February 2004, my doctor as usual did a DRE and felt an irregularity on the prostrate. She sent me to a Urologist, and well, you can see from my signature that I did have cancer. If it had not been for the suspicious DRE, I might not have been diagnosed nearly as soon as I was. At the time, 2.6 was not considered unusually high for someone my age. Most Urologists now would probably consider this reading marginally high for a 62-year-old. I would be concerned if you are 50 years of age, or older, and your physician is not doing both tests at least annually. We have heard of many cases where PCa was suspected on the basis of DRE alone, without a necessarily high PSA, and later confirmed by biopsy. — JerryW Respond to Newsgroup; email address is fake 2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62) 2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe 5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes 7/13/04 PSA <0.1 10/12/04 PSA <0.1 1/18/05 PSA <0.1 4/26/05 PSA <0.1 10/13/05 PSA <0.1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit them. Your comments would be most welcome.

Response:

"NickySantoro" … My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual physical. . . .  Your comments would be most welcome.

Your story implies three things to me: 1. Your PCP is shy about DREs, 2. He hasn’t the experience to recognize a marginal DRE anomaly, and 3. He’s not as informed as he should be about PCa screening. I’d ask him to explain all three concerns if he’s otherwise impressive —   but always wonder what OTHER chapters he slept through in med school . . . and start shopping for another PCP. Or are you 25 years old, which might skew his advice? I.P.

Response:

: My PCP is an internist and has yet to do a DRE during an annual : physical. When queried about this he said that the PSA is a reliable : enough indicator. He did send me to a Uro when my PSA took a bump. : Fortunately, and two biopsies later, it proved to be a false alarm. : That being said, my friend, age 60, was just diagnosed with PCa after : a biopsy. His PSA was 1.8 but the doc felt something on the DRE. : My thoughts are that I may need a different PCP. I believe that it may : be time for a change but I’d like to get some other informed opinions : on this issue and I can’t think of a better place than this to elicit : them. Your comments would be most welcome. The DRE, never welcome, is the first thing I think any competent physician should perform.  If he or she is at all experienced he will detect any unusual lumps or bumps on the surface of the prostate capsule and make a recommendation from there.  He may suggest that a PSA be taken, especially if the patient is around 50 (some say even lower).  Ideally, none of this antigen will be found in the bloodstream because it’s supposed to be a "closed system," and the equipment used to detect it is quite sensitive.  As a man ages, some leakage will occur, even if cancer is not present (or detectable).  Unfortunately, very high PSA levels usually have no noticeable effect on the individual but leakage is taking place and that indicates a rupture, which is indicative that something is "eating" its way through, and that something is probably cancer. I am not a physician, but I am a PCa survivor (4+ years now) and these comments are offered for what they’re worth. Ken Bland

Response:

Mr. Tony Abbott, Minister of Health

Question:

INSTRUCTIONS – PRESS THE FORWARD BUTTON  THEN Please number and place your name at the end of this list, then forward this email to anyone you know

This is a chain letter.  Most Internet Service Providers’ rules of acceptable use prohibit the sending or resending of chain letters. Whatever the merits of the argument, which has previously been discussed on alt.support.cancer.breast and elsewhere, should you wish to follow these instructions (which I emphasise I do not condone) first check such activity is allowed under your internet account. Tim Jackson

Response:

Hi everyone, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently, A Current Affair aired a story on Perth-based surgeon, Dr John Holt, who many believe has the cure for cancer. The NHMRC is supposedly conducting a review of Dr Holt’s method of cancer treatment – Microwave Cancer Therapy. The original date for this review to be submitted to the Minister for Health was December 21, 2004. It was not submitted. A further date was set. Again, the review was not submitted. It has still not been submitted. Strange when considering Dr. Holt’s claim that he could train any doctor to apply his therapy in a day. Dr Holt, who is 80 years of age, has cured thousands of people of many forms of cancer and closed his practice on June 30, 2005 because his method of treatment is considered by our government to be unorthodox. Chemo (a known killer), is the accepted, Orthodox method in cancer treatment. Dr, Holt’s retirement is a great loss to his patients and to the many thousands who could possibly be cured by his clearly successful method; people who will be told by oncologists that there is nothing that can be done for them. This is your chance to help fellow Australians, who finally have a chance to beat cancer, keep Dr. Holt’s work from being buried by our bureaucrats. Have you ever noticed how many appeals there are for cancer research, yet after more than three decades, there is no cure? Ever noticed how every cancer cure ultimately gets swept under the carpet? Cancer is a multi-billion dollar global industry that will not recognize any cure that cannot be manufactured as a patentable drug. It’s about money. Check it out on the web. It makes very interesting reading. We, the undersigned, demand that the Australian Government and the Department of Health and Ageing act swiftly and responsibly to ensure that Dr. Holt’s treatment method for cancer be fairly evaluated and implemented in mainstream medicine in Australia if it is proven to be beneficial in the treatment of cancer, and that Dr. Holt be recognized for his ground breaking work. INSTRUCTIONS – PRESS THE FORWARD BUTTON  THEN Please number and place your name at the end of this list, then forward this email to anyone you know who believes in common decency the right to life. If you are the 50th person on this list, please forward this email to: And You must then clear the list of all names and start a new list. We will hit Abbott with thousands of lists which we believe cannot be ignored. We have the opportunity to bust the insidious cancer industry (essentially American drug companies) wide open in Australia. We’re small enough as a nation to be able to do it. Americans have no chance. Thank you for your assistance in attempting to save the work Doctor Holt and with it, possibly, the lives of thousands of cancer sufferers in Australia and the world. 01. GenevieveArthy Oxley Qld 02.Jane Edwards, Forest Lake, Qld 03. Jenni Thompson, Grange Qld 04. Jan McIntyre St.Lucia Qld 05 Cheryl Van Leeuwen, New Farm QLD 06 Lloyd Golato, QLD 07 John Hardgrave, QLD 08 Annette Freeman, Spring Hill, QLD 09 Jodi Downey, Runaway Bay, Qld 10 Christine Harrison Noosa Heads 11 Tony Harrison Noosa Heads 12 Veronica Green, Caloundra, Qld 13 Brian Jones, Golden Beach, Qld 14 Steve Hobson, Golden Beach, Qld 15 Shirley Wood, Sandgate, Qld 16 Gary Wood, Sandgate, Qld    17 Keith Valentine, Mooloolaba, Qld    18 Robin Valentine, Mooloolaba, Qld 19 Debbie Waters

      20 Ian Black       21 Rachel Ford       22 Kate Ford       23 Benjamin Ford       24 Allan Waters       25 Beverley Waters 26 Sandra Mason

27 Bernadette McDermott 28 Geraldine Jasczyk, Gundaroo  NSW 29 Charles Mc Neilly, Queensland.

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Response:

Been in hospital

Question:

I don’t think they are.  The consultant obstetrician (sp?) wanted to start me on chemotherapy before I went home today, but the oncologist would not agree until he is certain.  They didn’t agree about it, so I am home without chemo, awaiting an operation that may or may not save my life. Anyway,  I have to face this and fight it.  There is only a 3/10 survival rate for what I have, apparently.  Keep purring and praying please.  For my cats.  Kitty is 18ish, BF is young but accepts no-one but me. OMG. Tweed

3/10 is still three alive people.  I do wish you didn’t have to wait even the weekend for answers.  Not knowing is so hard.  You need your energy to gear up for whatever you must deal with and whatever treatment you have ahead. Jo

Response:

Prayers and purrs on the way. Ann — read Sam’s blog at http://kittens-3.blogspot.com/ see pictures of Sam at http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ann791/my_photos

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed Oh my gawd, Tweed, I’m so sorry to hear that.  I had just written you an email 2 days ago asking if you were OK since I hadn’t seen you post lately. Mega purrs coming that everything goes OK and it’s not malignant.  And if the worse comes to the worst and it is, that at the very least they can get it all and you’ll have a complete recovery. Please keep us updated when you can. Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

Dear Group

… Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. … Tweed

Tweed, You are in my thoughts and prayers.  I know you are afraid, but please try to focus instead on all the positive energy sent your way and allow your body a chance to combat whatever it is. Rosie and Cinder send purrs to add to your own special nurse cats, KFC & BF. Take care, Annie

Response:

Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true.

Tweed, we’re sending purrs that you’ll be ok. Hang in there and wait for the test results before you start freaking out please! Sometimes it seems so bad, when for real, it is not so bad. — Cheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." – W.C. Fields

Response:

Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16.

I’ve been wondering where you are. Oodles of purrs are wafting southwest from my three that it is not malignant, but if it is, that the surgery is a complete success. You’ve had much more than your fair share lately. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

I am so sorry to hear this, but ‘Nipped is right, power of mind is very strong and you could be one of the 3/ in 3/10 odds. If it turns out to be true, what you fear, take all the chemo and treatment and *fight* with all that British spirit you have, Christina! We in the former colonies will be blasting strong purrs and meatloaf meditations across the pond for you and you alone. Let your cats be the comfort cats they can be. Best wishes to you from Hopitus.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. I’ve been wondering where you are. Oodles of purrs are wafting southwest from my three that it is not malignant, but if it is, that the surgery is a complete success. You’ve had much more than your fair share lately. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

OMG… sending purrs, meatloaf meditations and any other good vibes you need! Kristy, Tygra and Possum

Response:

Christina: We are sending you our best healing healthy purrs and thinking of you. Susan M Otis and Chester

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

Response:

I was wondering where you were  I will send mega gigantic purrs for you. Iknow you have had trouble with your eyes for some time. They have to be wrong. You have to get better.

Good lord, I completely misread that. Will adjust purrs to the correct region. There is much that can be done these days. I will be praying for you.

Response:

How awful for you when you really have worked so hard to get back to work.

It’s a bummer, isn’t it?  Four years of eye surgery resolved at last.  New state of the art stuff at work for me.  New glasses so I can see.  First full wage end of March.  I really thought I was getting out of all the bad stuff but I guess I spoke too soon. Did you ever see that Monty Python foot that came down to squash you? That’s how it feels.  "Think you got over that?  Think again, here’s something worse." Sending a great many prayers and purrs for a good outcome and for you to be well and happy as soon as can be managed.

Thank you.  However, from what I’ve gleaned from the doctors I’m not expecting a good outcome.  Seems so unfair, really.  They are fairly sure I have ovarian cancer. The silent killer.  Symptoms do not appear until it’s in an advanced stage. I have swelled up so much over the past week that I look six months pregnant.  Yes, it was pain that finally made me seek medical help last week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Fact of the mater is I’m quite sure I’ve got a new candle around here somewhere that may get pressed in to service for concentrating good wishes as well. Jo Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

Response:

I don’t think they are.  The consultant obstetrician (sp?) wanted to start me on chemotherapy before I went home today, but the oncologist would not agree until he is certain.  They didn’t agree about it, so I am home without chemo, awaiting an operation that may or may not save my life. Anyway,  I have to face this and fight it.  There is only a 3/10 survival rate for what I have, apparently.  Keep purring and praying please.  For my cats.  Kitty is 18ish, BF is young but accepts no-one but me. OMG. Tweed

Now stop this right now and listen to me.  I know how overpoweringly frightening this is, but you *MUST* keep a positive attitude.  Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine… She found a lump in her right breast and went into the hospital and had a mastectomy.  She went through radiation therapy and chemotherapy.  Six months later they found cancer in her left breast and she had *another* mastectomy.  She went through another round of radiation and chemo.  Eight months later they found that she had tumors on her ovaries and she had a hysterectomy – more radiation, more chemo.  A year later they found cancer in the bones of her right leg and she had to have bones replaced – even more radiation and more chemo.  She had *nine* surgeries and as many rounds of radiation and chemo. But this isn’t just a horror story though of all she had to go through.  All through this ordeal she kept telling me, "I *WILL* live to see my children grow up, graduate, and get married.  That was 25 years ago, and she is still alive and playing with her grandchildren even though 25 years ago all the doctors were ready to give up on her and just kept treating her because she insisted. It is *unbelievable* what power the mind has over the body, and the *WILL* to live will keep you alive longer then any medicine on earth.  Keep thinking positively, refuse to give in or give up, stay alive for KFC and Boyfriend, *AND* for us!  *PLEASE* keep fighting for as long as there is a breath in you.  We’ll be here to support you and love you and to give you a shoulder to cry on when you need it and a kick in the pants when you need *that*. Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How awful for you when you really have worked so hard to get back to work. It’s a bummer, isn’t it?  Four years of eye surgery resolved at last. New state of the art stuff at work for me.  New glasses so I can see.  First full wage end of March.  I really thought I was getting out of all the bad stuff but I guess I spoke too soon. Did you ever see that Monty Python foot that came down to squash you? That’s how it feels.  "Think you got over that?  Think again, here’s something worse." Sending a great many prayers and purrs for a good outcome and for you to be well and happy as soon as can be managed. Thank you.  However, from what I’ve gleaned from the doctors I’m not expecting a good outcome.  Seems so unfair, really.  They are fairly sure I have ovarian cancer. The silent killer.  Symptoms do not appear until it’s in an advanced stage. I have swelled up so much over the past week that I look six months pregnant.  Yes, it was pain that finally made me seek medical help last week. Oh God, Tweed, I *SO* hope they’re wrong! Hugs, CatNipped

I don’t think they are.  The consultant obstetrician (sp?) wanted to start me on chemotherapy before I went home today, but the oncologist would not agree until he is certain.  They didn’t agree about it, so I am home without chemo, awaiting an operation that may or may not save my life. Anyway,  I have to face this and fight it.  There is only a 3/10 survival rate for what I have, apparently.  Keep purring and praying please.  For my cats.  Kitty is 18ish, BF is young but accepts no-one but me. OMG. Tweed

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How awful for you when you really have worked so hard to get back to work. It’s a bummer, isn’t it?  Four years of eye surgery resolved at last.  New state of the art stuff at work for me.  New glasses so I can see.  First full wage end of March.  I really thought I was getting out of all the bad stuff but I guess I spoke too soon. Did you ever see that Monty Python foot that came down to squash you? That’s how it feels.  "Think you got over that?  Think again, here’s something worse." Sending a great many prayers and purrs for a good outcome and for you to be well and happy as soon as can be managed. Thank you.  However, from what I’ve gleaned from the doctors I’m not expecting a good outcome.  Seems so unfair, really.  They are fairly sure I have ovarian cancer. The silent killer.  Symptoms do not appear until it’s in an advanced stage. I have swelled up so much over the past week that I look six months pregnant.  Yes, it was pain that finally made me seek medical help last week.

Oh God, Tweed, I *SO* hope they’re wrong! Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

I was wondering where you were  I will send mega gigantic purrs for you. Iknow you have had trouble with your eyes for some time. They have to be wrong. You have to get better.

Response:

Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

Oh my gawd, Tweed, I’m so sorry to hear that.  I had just written you an email 2 days ago asking if you were OK since I hadn’t seen you post lately. Mega purrs coming that everything goes OK and it’s not malignant.  And if the worse comes to the worst and it is, that at the very least they can get it all and you’ll have a complete recovery. Please keep us updated when you can. Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the

We’re sending lots of purrs and positive energy. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

Purring for a successful surgery.   The big CA is not necessarily a death threat.  I know very many people who have come through successfully (including myself – 40 years ago).  My cousin had the surgery at 66 and lived to 90.  My old boss had it at  65 and is still going strong at 89.   I could go on and on.    But shall definitely purr for a quick recovery for you.   MLB

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place. When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

Mega purrs on the way for you, and what good babies KFC and BF are to welcome you back home. Smokie Darling (Annie) – lots of prayers and finger/toe crossings (okay I can’t do that, but you get the idea).  Praying that all goes incredibly well.

Response:

Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did.

Yes, the can, and do. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things. Tweed

Oh my, girl!!!  I am so sorry!!  Sending most earnest, urgent purrs for you, and hoping your kitties step up and take wonderful care of you. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group I was admitted to hospital last Friday morning and have returned home tonight with a cocktail of mega painkillers, and major gynae surgery scheduled for May 16. Please purr and pray that what I have got is not malignant, but at the moment it’s looking that way.  There is a slim chance that it isn’t, so I am just clinging to that at the moment. And no, I’m not doing a Holly on you.  This is, I’m afraid, horribly true. KFC & BF were so pleased to see me, the neighbours have been coming round to feed them.  Neither of them were in the house when I got home.  BF was perched on the freezer in the conservatory, it’s his comfort place.  When I popped my head out of the back door and gave my special whistle cats seemed to be everywhere.  How can two cats totally surround you like there was a whole group of them?  Anyway, they did. I see there are now more than 2000 unread posts since I was away, I might have to delete all unread and start again, but I will try to read some. Sending purrs and prayers to everyone in need that I’ve had to miss and get wells and all those things.

Dear Tweed, I wish you well.  Hopefully you’ve been up on your gyn appts. so that if it is malignant, it will be gettable.  Take care, and God speed. —

Laparoscopic proctocolectomy with restorative ileal-anal pouch.

Question:

…snip quoted summary of ostomy paper… I am not sure that all of these articles are on topic for all the selected newsgroups.  This one for example does not seem relevant to alt.support.cancer.breast Can I suggest a little more selectivity in cross-posting. Thanks. — Tim Jackson

Response:

…snip quoted summary of ostomy paper… I am not sure that all of these articles are on topic for all the selected newsgroups.  This one for example does not seem relevant to alt.support.cancer.breast Can I suggest a little more selectivity in cross-posting.

Hi Tim, I already told him to post them to sci.med.diseases.cancer or (other) relevant newsgroups. Just imagine, if 40 posters did that every day, our newsgroups would be flooded with these. He doesn’t respond and continues posting. It’s one kook after another here. Google doesn’t care about complaints about such. Hotmail and Yahoo don’t seem to have newsgroup policies. (unless you know different) All we have is the choice of filtering him and some don’t have filtering systems. Actually, Tim, the burglar of turds who was impersonating me the other day, has NNTP Host 66.167.130.17 and this one has 66.167.135.204 When I do a whois on both, I get whoismelbourneit.com (newsserver?) and seems to me that leads to New South Wales in Australia, but I’m not an expert at chasing these things down.  So it could be the same guy do you know who and how to complain about these posts/posters? Thanks J

Response:

Gill TS, Karantana A, Rees J, Pandey S, Dixon AR. Department Colorectal Surgery, North Bristol NHS Trust, Frenchay Hospital, Bristol BS16 1LE, UK. OBJECTIVE: The aim of the study was to analyse the outcome of restorative proctocolectomy carried out by laparoscopic surgery. METHODS: A prospectively collected electronic database of all colorectal laparoscopic procedures performed between April 2001 and July 2003 has been used to identify surgical outcomes in 14 consecutive patients who have undergone laparoscopic RPC. RESULTS: Fourteen patients (5 male), median BMI 24 kg/m(2) have undergone restorative laparoscopic proctocolectomy over a two year period: 13 (ulcerative colitis, one with cancer) and 1 (FAP). The median operation time was 260 min; time has not decreased with experience. There were no intra-operative surgical complications or deaths. Patient controlled analgesia continued for a median of 36 h. The median time to diet was 48 h and median hospital stay 7 days; three patients required nasogastric aspiration for delayed gastric emptying. Eighteen regional lymph nodes were retrieved local to the carcinoma. There was one anastomotic leak. All covering stomas were closed by 6 months (12 by eight weeks). All 14 patients are fully continent, able to suppress urgency and have a median pouch frequency of 4/24 h. None admit to having problems with potency, orgasm sensation, ejaculation, micturition. One lady reports dysparunia. All are highly satisfied with functional outcome and cosmesis. CONCLUSION: We are encouraged to continue to offer our patients the option of a laparoscopic resection.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip quoted summary of ostomy paper… I am not sure that all of these articles are on topic for all the selected newsgroups.  This one for example does not seem relevant to alt.support.cancer.breast Can I suggest a little more selectivity in cross-posting. Hi Tim, I already told him to post them to sci.med.diseases.cancer or (other) relevant newsgroups. Just imagine, if 40 posters did that every day, our newsgroups would be flooded with these. He doesn’t respond and continues posting. It’s one kook after another here. Google doesn’t care about complaints about such. Hotmail and Yahoo don’t seem to have newsgroup policies. (unless you know different) All we have is the choice of filtering him and some don’t have filtering systems. Actually, Tim, the burglar of turds who was impersonating me the other day, has NNTP Host 66.167.130.17 and this one has 66.167.135.204 When I do a whois on both, I get whoismelbourneit.com (newsserver?) and seems to me that leads to New South Wales in Australia, but I’m not an expert at chasing these things down.  So it could be the same guy do you know who and how to complain about these posts/posters? Thanks J

The address range 66.166.0.0 to 66.167.255.255 is allocated to Covad Communications of 2510 Zanker Road San Jose California 95131 (By American Registry for Internet Numbers – www.arin.net) Central Expressway Santa Clara CA 95051 Individual addresses within the group are apparently sub-allocated by laserlink.net administered by WebReg, RN of 4200 Wisconsin Avenue #106-190 Washington DC 20016 Beyond that the trail seems to go cold, but if you look at the laserlink.com website you get a lot of popups and stuff, which might be a clue.  Laserlink offer a referral-whois server, but of course it doesn’t answer. I’m not sure what trail led you to MelbourneIt but a lot of domains are registered there, not just by companies operating out of Australia.  But in this case you don’t apparently have a domain name to research, just an IP address. The trouble with the Hotmail/Yahoo – Google structure is that no-one can enforce rules.  The mailbox provider may close the account or Google might block it, but it is easy to set up another one.  I suppose if there are enough complaints Yahoo and Hotmail might refuse further accounts to a particular individual, but although they do now require personal identification, I guess it’s still pretty easy to get around. — Tim Jackson -Who needs to pay Microsoft?  Free Open Source Software- www.mozilla.org       FIREFOX Web Browser,  THUNDERBIRD Email/News www.openoffice.org      Office Suite

Response:

What can friends/family do to help?

Question:

I used this newsgroup a great deal when I was diagnosed with BC in 2001, and I think I remember reading about a list/article/FAQ about what friends and family can do to help when a woman is diagnosed with beast cancer or undergoing treatment. Is there anyone here who remembers this? Can anyone post a link to the information or something? I’d greatly appreciate it!

Go to http://www.cancerbacup.org.uk/Home Cancer Bacup will give such help to anyone by phone and by supplying excellent leaflets. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steph

Response:

I used this newsgroup a great deal when I was diagnosed with BC in 2001, and I think I remember reading about a list/article/FAQ about what friends and family can do to help when a woman is diagnosed with beast cancer or undergoing treatment.

In addition to Mary’s excellent suggestion, you can find this newsgroup’s FAQ at http://www.cancersupporters.com .  Pick the "alt.support.cancer.breast" link, then the FAQ link.  One of the things friends and family can do is the "chemo basket" under "Coping with Chemotherapy" (some of it applies even absent chemo). Take care, Ann T.

Response:

Thanks for the help, and for the links which are very useful.  If you don’t mind, I’m going to start a new thread for any other suggestions for things people would have liked when they were having treatment Steph Steph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I used this newsgroup a great deal when I was diagnosed with BC in 2001, and I think I remember reading about a list/article/FAQ about what friends and family can do to help when a woman is diagnosed with beast cancer or undergoing treatment. Is there anyone here who remembers this? Can anyone post a link to the information or something? I’d greatly appreciate it! Steph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

past post

Question:

Could you please head me to where there might be some past post I’ve missed Thank You Nancy

Response:

Could you please head me to where there might be some past post I’ve missed Thank You Nancy

  If you are looking for archived posts I suggest you check on Google http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.support.cancer.breast They have fairly extensive search facilities and records back to almost the beginning of time. Tim Jackson

Response:

Are frozen sirloin burgers Core food??

Question:

Hi, Joyce, You have had a really rotten time of it. Take Care Catherine joined 5/20/98 Lifetime 6/2/99 154/136.6/136 Personal goal 126

Hmmmmm, that might not be a bad idea – I think I need to be found, or something. Seriously, the energy has been waning and the mind is not in a good place. I have been fighting hard, just not sure I am getting anywhere.  It’s been a really tough summer, emotionally.  The most recent *disaster* was receiving a call from the nursing home that my mom had a foul smell emitting from her and when they went to check things out they found a massively infected sore under her breast that had ruptured … sending her to the emergency room for treatment.  From there she was admitted, biopsies, iv antibiotics, etc.  Doctors kept telling me that all signs led them to believe cancer but to wait for biopsie reports to be sure.  They even went as far as running a CT scan as they feared it was possible that if cancer it may have spread to the brain (she also showed symptoms of facial paralysis while in the hospital).  After a week, reports came back stating it was only an abscess <sigh of relief –  but scan showed several previous mini-strokes which may be more of an explanation as to the dementia.  So tired ol’ me, trekking to the hospital daily … as well as dealing with my oldest daughters second episode of MRSA infection and fearing she would also have to be hospitalized for this (her husbands company was actually quarantined and waiting for infectious diseases to clear them at this time) … and mother in law in hospital for minor cataract surgery.  You should have seen me running from one hospital to another – in two different neighboring towns – one 15 miles west, one 10 miles east.   And now I have found my son has an odd *sore* on his arm that seems to do nothing but get larger, says it has been there for a few months.  He is fighting me on going to the doctor to have it checked out (family history of skin cancer).  It’s probably nothing, but at his young age (20) why put it off and let it become something. I guess the compounding issues throughout the summer have finally worn me out and I now feel like I am fighting the old depression symptoms again.  I didn’t even realize it, had it pointed out to me by a concerned friend … lack of interest in anything, not wanting to leave the house or do anything … no ambition, no energy, no enthusiasm, no desire.  I have dealt with this before though and will fight my way through it again.  I’m tough, I’ll win. On the weight front, things aren’t pretty … not horribly ugly either, just not as good as I’d like.  The last time I was on the scale (last week) I was still well below my weight watchers official goal, but 1 pound over my personal goal (or under, honestly can’t remember now so will go with the over and be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong).  I have suspicions that it might even be up from that today.  What I am choosing to eat is not bad, those good choices are still with me … it’s more the portion control thing going on, as well as recently dipping into the wine with my eldest in the afternoon. <g  Hey, I gotta enjoy something, right?  LOL  Clothing is fitting *ok*, but could be much better.  I think my only saving grace has been that I seem to be able to keep things together really well for 4 or 5 days, then totally out of whack for a few days before working back into things.  And exercise seems to have become a thing of the past.  Like I said, the mind just isn’t in a good place yet.  I think you said it in an old post I just read … that *want power* just isn’t there like it had been.  I need to find that again.  Not sure which needs to come first though, or if it goes hand in hand with that mental health stuff I’m working on. I’ll try to stick around more, but if I do become quiet or appear to disappear again … guess you know why.  Just give me a prod, or smack me upside the head – gently.  <g Joyce

Response:

*hugs n stuff* — Will~ 196.2 / 133.4 / 137 lbs 89 / 60.5 / 62.1 Kg Personal goal 125 lbs / 56.7 Kg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmmmm, that might not be a bad idea – I think I need to be found, or something. Seriously, the energy has been waning and the mind is not in a good place. I have been fighting hard, just not sure I am getting anywhere.  It’s been a really tough summer, emotionally.  The most recent *disaster* was receiving a call from the nursing home that my mom had a foul smell emitting from her and when they went to check things out they found a massively infected sore under her breast that had ruptured … sending her to the emergency room for treatment.  From there she was admitted, biopsies, iv antibiotics, etc.  Doctors kept telling me that all signs led them to believe cancer but to wait for biopsie reports to be sure. They even went as far as running a CT scan as they feared it was possible that if cancer it may have spread to the brain (she also showed symptoms of facial paralysis while in the hospital).  After a week, reports came back stating it was only an abscess <sigh of relief –  but scan showed several previous mini-strokes which may be more of an explanation as to the dementia.  So tired ol’ me, trekking to the hospital daily … as well as dealing with my oldest daughters second episode of MRSA infection and fearing she would also have to be hospitalized for this (her husbands company was actually quarantined and waiting for infectious diseases to clear them at this time) … and mother in law in hospital for minor cataract surgery.  You should have seen me running from one hospital to another – in two different neighboring towns – one 15 miles west, one 10 miles east.   And now I have found my son has an odd *sore* on his arm that seems to do nothing but get larger, says it has been there for a few months.  He is fighting me on going to the doctor to have it checked out (family history of skin cancer).  It’s probably nothing, but at his young age (20) why put it off and let it become something. I guess the compounding issues throughout the summer have finally worn me out and I now feel like I am fighting the old depression symptoms again.  I didn’t even realize it, had it pointed out to me by a concerned friend … lack of interest in anything, not wanting to leave the house or do anything … no ambition, no energy, no enthusiasm, no desire.  I have dealt with this before though and will fight my way through it again.  I’m tough, I’ll win. On the weight front, things aren’t pretty … not horribly ugly either, just not as good as I’d like.  The last time I was on the scale (last week) I was still well below my weight watchers official goal, but 1 pound over my personal goal (or under, honestly can’t remember now so will go with the over and be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong).  I have suspicions that it might even be up from that today.  What I am choosing to eat is not bad, those good choices are still with me … it’s more the portion control thing going on, as well as recently dipping into the wine with my eldest in the afternoon. <g  Hey, I gotta enjoy something, right?  LOL  Clothing is fitting *ok*, but could be much better.  I think my only saving grace has been that I seem to be able to keep things together really well for 4 or 5 days, then totally out of whack for a few days before working back into things.  And exercise seems to have become a thing of the past.  Like I said, the mind just isn’t in a good place yet.  I think you said it in an old post I just read … that *want power* just isn’t there like it had been.  I need to find that again.  Not sure which needs to come first though, or if it goes hand in hand with that mental health stuff I’m working on. I’ll try to stick around more, but if I do become quiet or appear to disappear again … guess you know why.  Just give me a prod, or smack me upside the head – gently.  <g Joyce I was beginning to think we would have to send Lewis and Clark out looking for you on their way back from their west coast explorations. Hope all is well. I’m thinking NO – too high in fat.  In order for ground beef to be considered core it has to contain 7% or less of fat.  Most nutritional labels that I recall have this same number listed as the fat grams … or pretty darn close.  In looking at www.laurasleanbeef.com nutritional info for her 92% lean ground beef it states that one serving contains 160 calories and 9g of fat – this product would not be considered Core.   In comparison, the beef patties you purchased are more than twice the caloric content and nearly three times the fat content.  I am guessing the burgers must be pretty big, even if you cut one in half it wouldn’t meet core qualifications. Joyce <yup, I’m still around and hope to touch base a bit more later this evening … or morning

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

Very very glad to hear from you Joyce. Summer is usually your busy family time so I wasn’t overly concerned about your absence. I also kinda wondered if things with your mother had changed. Now that you’ve reported everything that’s going on, it’s no wonder you’re having a hard time focusing on you: You’re being the caregiver for so many other people. Running to all those hospitals, dealing with all those life and death situations, coping all the intense emotions of not knowing and then experiencing the ups and downs of good news/bad news… No wonder you’re exhausted, and don’t care much about paying attention to what you eat. The daily wine sounds like the perfect medicine under your circumstances. Glad you’re doing something to unwind. At least sharing this little break with your eldest means you’re not alone. Don’t worry too much about not being the life of the party. Right now, being the heart of the party is enough. Take care, Joyce. I’ll be thinking about you. — Linda P – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmmmm, that might not be a bad idea – I think I need to be found, or something.   Seriously, the energy has been waning and the mind is not in a good place.  I have been fighting hard, just not sure I am getting anywhere.  It’s been a really tough summer, emotionally.  The most recent *disaster* was receiving a call from the nursing home that my mom had a foul smell emitting from her and when they went to check things out they found a massively infected sore under her breast that had ruptured … sending her to the emergency room for treatment.  From there she was admitted, biopsies, iv antibiotics, etc.  Doctors kept telling me that all signs led them to believe cancer but to wait for biopsie reports to be sure.  They even went as far as running a CT scan as they feared it was possible that if cancer it may have spread to the brain (she also showed symptoms of facial paralysis while in the hospital).  After a week, reports came back stating it was only an abscess <sigh of relief –  but scan showed several previous mini-strokes which may be more of an explanation as to the dementia.  So tired ol’ me, trekking to the hospital daily … as well as dealing with my oldest daughters second episode of MRSA infection and fearing she would also have to be hospitalized for this (her husbands company was actually quarantined and waiting for infectious diseases to clear them at this time) … and mother in law in hospital for minor cataract surgery.  You should have seen me running from one hospital to another – in two different neighboring towns – one 15 miles west, one 10 miles east.   And now I have found my son has an odd *sore* on his arm that seems to do nothing but get larger, says it has been there for a few months.  He is fighting me on going to the doctor to have it checked out (family history of skin cancer).  It’s probably nothing, but at his young age (20) why put it off and let it become something. I guess the compounding issues throughout the summer have finally worn me out and I now feel like I am fighting the old depression symptoms again.  I didn’t even realize it, had it pointed out to me by a concerned friend … lack of interest in anything, not wanting to leave the house or do anything … no ambition, no energy, no enthusiasm, no desire.  I have dealt with this before though and will fight my way through it again.  I’m tough, I’ll win. On the weight front, things aren’t pretty … not horribly ugly either, just not as good as I’d like.  The last time I was on the scale (last week) I was still well below my weight watchers official goal, but 1 pound over my personal goal (or under, honestly can’t remember now so will go with the over and be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong).  I have suspicions that it might even be up from that today.  What I am choosing to eat is not bad, those good choices are still with me … it’s more the portion control thing going on, as well as recently dipping into the wine with my eldest in the afternoon. <g  Hey, I gotta enjoy something, right?  LOL  Clothing is fitting *ok*, but could be much better.  I think my only saving grace has been that I seem to be able to keep things together really well for 4 or 5 days, then totally out of whack for a few days before working back into things.  And exercise seems to have become a thing of the past.  Like I said, the mind just isn’t in a good place yet.  I think you said it in an old post I just read … that *want power* just isn’t there like it had been.  I need to find that again.  Not sure which needs to come first though, or if it goes hand in hand with that mental health stuff I’m working on. I’ll try to stick around more, but if I do become quiet or appear to disappear again … guess you know why.  Just give me a prod, or smack me upside the head – gently.  <g Joyce I was beginning to think we would have to send Lewis and Clark out looking for you on their way back from their west coast explorations. Hope all is well. I’m thinking NO – too high in fat.  In order for ground beef to be considered core it has to contain 7% or less of fat.  Most nutritional labels that I recall have this same number listed as the fat grams … or pretty darn close.  In looking at www.laurasleanbeef.com nutritional info for her 92% lean ground beef it states that one serving contains 160 calories and 9g of fat – this product would not be considered Core.   In comparison, the beef patties you purchased are more than twice the caloric content and nearly three times the fat content.  I am guessing the burgers must be pretty big, even if you cut one in half it wouldn’t meet core qualifications.   Joyce <yup, I’m still around and hope to touch base a bit more later this evening … or morning Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

Sorry to hear that things are rough for you. Stick around and maybe we can shake some of it for you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmmmm, that might not be a bad idea – I think I need to be found, or something. Seriously, the energy has been waning and the mind is not in a good place. I have been fighting hard, just not sure I am getting anywhere.  It’s been a really tough summer, emotionally.  The most recent *disaster* was receiving a call from the nursing home that my mom had a foul smell emitting from her and when they went to check things out they found a massively infected sore under her breast that had ruptured … sending her to the emergency room for treatment.  From there she was admitted, biopsies, iv antibiotics, etc.  Doctors kept telling me that all signs led them to believe cancer but to wait for biopsie reports to be sure. They even went as far as running a CT scan as they feared it was possible that if cancer it may have spread to the brain (she also showed symptoms of facial paralysis while in the hospital).  After a week, reports came back stating it was only an abscess <sigh of relief –  but scan showed several previous mini-strokes which may be more of an explanation as to the dementia.  So tired ol’ me, trekking to the hospital daily … as well as dealing with my oldest daughters second episode of MRSA infection and fearing she would also have to be hospitalized for this (her husbands company was actually quarantined and waiting for infectious diseases to clear them at this time) … and mother in law in hospital for minor cataract surgery.  You should have seen me running from one hospital to another – in two different neighboring towns – one 15 miles west, one 10 miles east.   And now I have found my son has an odd *sore* on his arm that seems to do nothing but get larger, says it has been there for a few months.  He is fighting me on going to the doctor to have it checked out (family history of skin cancer).  It’s probably nothing, but at his young age (20) why put it off and let it become something. I guess the compounding issues throughout the summer have finally worn me out and I now feel like I am fighting the old depression symptoms again.  I didn’t even realize it, had it pointed out to me by a concerned friend … lack of interest in anything, not wanting to leave the house or do anything … no ambition, no energy, no enthusiasm, no desire.  I have dealt with this before though and will fight my way through it again.  I’m tough, I’ll win. On the weight front, things aren’t pretty … not horribly ugly either, just not as good as I’d like.  The last time I was on the scale (last week) I was still well below my weight watchers official goal, but 1 pound over my personal goal (or under, honestly can’t remember now so will go with the over and be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong).  I have suspicions that it might even be up from that today.  What I am choosing to eat is not bad, those good choices are still with me … it’s more the portion control thing going on, as well as recently dipping into the wine with my eldest in the afternoon. <g  Hey, I gotta enjoy something, right?  LOL  Clothing is fitting *ok*, but could be much better.  I think my only saving grace has been that I seem to be able to keep things together really well for 4 or 5 days, then totally out of whack for a few days before working back into things.  And exercise seems to have become a thing of the past.  Like I said, the mind just isn’t in a good place yet.  I think you said it in an old post I just read … that *want power* just isn’t there like it had been.  I need to find that again.  Not sure which needs to come first though, or if it goes hand in hand with that mental health stuff I’m working on. I’ll try to stick around more, but if I do become quiet or appear to disappear again … guess you know why.  Just give me a prod, or smack me upside the head – gently.  <g Joyce I was beginning to think we would have to send Lewis and Clark out looking for you on their way back from their west coast explorations. Hope all is well. I’m thinking NO – too high in fat.  In order for ground beef to be considered core it has to contain 7% or less of fat.  Most nutritional labels that I recall have this same number listed as the fat grams … or pretty darn close.  In looking at www.laurasleanbeef.com nutritional info for her 92% lean ground beef it states that one serving contains 160 calories and 9g of fat – this product would not be considered Core.   In comparison, the beef patties you purchased are more than twice the caloric content and nearly three times the fat content.  I am guessing the burgers must be pretty big, even if you cut one in half it wouldn’t meet core qualifications. Joyce <yup, I’m still around and hope to touch base a bit more later this evening … or morning

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

whoah, that is a bunch,, glad you are doing as well as you are, come here if you need to vent, Lee, who relates all to well

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmmmm, that might not be a bad idea – I think I need to be found, or something. Seriously, the energy has been waning and the mind is not in a good place. I have been fighting hard, just not sure I am getting anywhere.  It’s been a really tough summer, emotionally.  The most recent *disaster* was receiving a call from the nursing home that my mom had a foul smell emitting from her and when they went to check things out they found a massively infected sore under her breast that had ruptured … sending her to the emergency room for treatment.  From there she was admitted, biopsies, iv antibiotics, etc.  Doctors kept telling me that all signs led them to believe cancer but to wait for biopsie reports to be sure. They even went as far as running a CT scan as they feared it was possible that if cancer it may have spread to the brain (she also showed symptoms of facial paralysis while in the hospital).  After a week, reports came back stating it was only an abscess <sigh of relief –  but scan showed several previous mini-strokes which may be more of an explanation as to the dementia.  So tired ol’ me, trekking to the hospital daily … as well as dealing with my oldest daughters second episode of MRSA infection and fearing she would also have to be hospitalized for this (her husbands company was actually quarantined and waiting for infectious diseases to clear them at this time) … and mother in law in hospital for minor cataract surgery.  You should have seen me running from one hospital to another – in two different neighboring towns – one 15 miles west, one 10 miles east.   And now I have found my son has an odd *sore* on his arm that seems to do nothing but get larger, says it has been there for a few months.  He is fighting me on going to the doctor to have it checked out (family history of skin cancer).  It’s probably nothing, but at his young age (20) why put it off and let it become something. I guess the compounding issues throughout the summer have finally worn me out and I now feel like I am fighting the old depression symptoms again.  I didn’t even realize it, had it pointed out to me by a concerned friend … lack of interest in anything, not wanting to leave the house or do anything … no ambition, no energy, no enthusiasm, no desire.  I have dealt with this before though and will fight my way through it again.  I’m tough, I’ll win. On the weight front, things aren’t pretty … not horribly ugly either, just not as good as I’d like.  The last time I was on the scale (last week) I was still well below my weight watchers official goal, but 1 pound over my personal goal (or under, honestly can’t remember now so will go with the over and be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong).  I have suspicions that it might even be up from that today.  What I am choosing to eat is not bad, those good choices are still with me … it’s more the portion control thing going on, as well as recently dipping into the wine with my eldest in the afternoon. <g  Hey, I gotta enjoy something, right?  LOL  Clothing is fitting *ok*, but could be much better.  I think my only saving grace has been that I seem to be able to keep things together really well for 4 or 5 days, then totally out of whack for a few days before working back into things.  And exercise seems to have become a thing of the past.  Like I said, the mind just isn’t in a good place yet.  I think you said it in an old post I just read … that *want power* just isn’t there like it had been.  I need to find that again.  Not sure which needs to come first though, or if it goes hand in hand with that mental health stuff I’m working on. I’ll try to stick around more, but if I do become quiet or appear to disappear again … guess you know why.  Just give me a prod, or smack me upside the head – gently.  <g Joyce I was beginning to think we would have to send Lewis and Clark out looking for you on their way back from their west coast explorations. Hope all is well. I’m thinking NO – too high in fat.  In order for ground beef to be considered core it has to contain 7% or less of fat.  Most nutritional labels that I recall have this same number listed as the fat grams … or pretty darn close.  In looking at www.laurasleanbeef.com nutritional info for her 92% lean ground beef it states that one serving contains 160 calories and 9g of fat – this product would not be considered Core.   In comparison, the beef patties you purchased are more than twice the caloric content and nearly three times the fat content.  I am guessing the burgers must be pretty big, even if you cut one in half it wouldn’t meet core qualifications. Joyce <yup, I’m still around and hope to touch base a bit more later this evening … or morning

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

Sorry to hear about all your trouble, but so glad to hear from you! You and your familiy will be in my thougts. — Nathalie from Belgium 134.1/91.1/minigoal 90.3/ Goal 68 Kg 295.6/200.9/minigoal 199/Goal 150 pounds WW challenge 204.8/200.9/194 pounds                          92.9/91.1/88 Kg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmmmm, that might not be a bad idea – I think I need to be found, or something. Seriously, the energy has been waning and the mind is not in a good place. I have been fighting hard, just not sure I am getting anywhere.  It’s been a really tough summer, emotionally.  The most recent *disaster* was receiving a call from the nursing home that my mom had a foul smell emitting from her and when they went to check things out they found a massively infected sore under her breast that had ruptured … sending her to the emergency room for treatment.  From there she was admitted, biopsies, iv antibiotics, etc.  Doctors kept telling me that all signs led them to believe cancer but to wait for biopsie reports to be sure. They even went as far as running a CT scan as they feared it was possible that if cancer it may have spread to the brain (she also showed symptoms of facial paralysis while in the hospital).  After a week, reports came back stating it was only an abscess <sigh of relief –  but scan showed several previous mini-strokes which may be more of an explanation as to the dementia.  So tired ol’ me, trekking to the hospital daily … as well as dealing with my oldest daughters second episode of MRSA infection and fearing she would also have to be hospitalized for this (her husbands company was actually quarantined and waiting for infectious diseases to clear them at this time) … and mother in law in hospital for minor cataract surgery.  You should have seen me running from one hospital to another – in two different neighboring towns – one 15 miles west, one 10 miles east.   And now I have found my son has an odd *sore* on his arm that seems to do nothing but get larger, says it has been there for a few months.  He is fighting me on going to the doctor to have it checked out (family history of skin cancer).  It’s probably nothing, but at his young age (20) why put it off and let it become something. I guess the compounding issues throughout the summer have finally worn me out and I now feel like I am fighting the old depression symptoms again.  I didn’t even realize it, had it pointed out to me by a concerned friend … lack of interest in anything, not wanting to leave the house or do anything … no ambition, no energy, no enthusiasm, no desire.  I have dealt with this before though and will fight my way through it again.  I’m tough, I’ll win. On the weight front, things aren’t pretty … not horribly ugly either, just not as good as I’d like.  The last time I was on the scale (last week) I was still well below my weight watchers official goal, but 1 pound over my personal goal (or under, honestly can’t remember now so will go with the over and be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong).  I have suspicions that it might even be up from that today.  What I am choosing to eat is not bad, those good choices are still with me … it’s more the portion control thing going on, as well as recently dipping into the wine with my eldest in the afternoon. <g  Hey, I gotta enjoy something, right?  LOL  Clothing is fitting *ok*, but could be much better.  I think my only saving grace has been that I seem to be able to keep things together really well for 4 or 5 days, then totally out of whack for a few days before working back into things.  And exercise seems to have become a thing of the past.  Like I said, the mind just isn’t in a good place yet.  I think you said it in an old post I just read … that *want power* just isn’t there like it had been.  I need to find that again.  Not sure which needs to come first though, or if it goes hand in hand with that mental health stuff I’m working on. I’ll try to stick around more, but if I do become quiet or appear to disappear again … guess you know why.  Just give me a prod, or smack me upside the head – gently.  <g Joyce I was beginning to think we would have to send Lewis and Clark out looking for you on their way back from their west coast explorations. Hope all is well. I’m thinking NO – too high in fat.  In order for ground beef to be considered core it has to contain 7% or less of fat.  Most nutritional labels that I recall have this same number listed as the fat grams … or pretty darn close.  In looking at www.laurasleanbeef.com nutritional info for her 92% lean ground beef it states that one serving contains 160 calories and 9g of fat – this product would not be considered Core.   In comparison, the beef patties you purchased are more than twice the caloric content and nearly three times the fat content.  I am guessing the burgers must be pretty big, even if you cut one in half it wouldn’t meet core qualifications. Joyce <yup, I’m still around and hope to touch base a bit more later this evening … or morning

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

I’m thinking NO – too high in fat.  In order for ground beef to be considered core it has to contain 7% or less of fat.  Most nutritional labels that I recall have this same number listed as the fat grams … or pretty darn close.  In looking at www.laurasleanbeef.com nutritional info for her 92% lean ground beef it states that one serving contains 160 calories and 9g of fat – this product would not be considered Core.   In comparison, the beef patties you purchased are more than twice the caloric content and nearly three times the fat content.  I am guessing the burgers must be pretty big, even if you cut one in half it wouldn’t meet core qualifications.   Joyce <yup, I’m still around and hope to touch base a bit more later this evening … or morning – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

I’m gonna agree with Joyce that they are too high in Fat to qualify for Core. You’d be better off with Boca burgers or cook your own 7% FF from the supermarket. My namesake, "Laura", makes a low fat line of meats that are Core Friendly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

I am not sure but I think it would depend on the percent of fat?? Lee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

Hmmmmm, that might not be a bad idea – I think I need to be found, or something.   Seriously, the energy has been waning and the mind is not in a good place.  I have been fighting hard, just not sure I am getting anywhere.  It’s been a really tough summer, emotionally.  The most recent *disaster* was receiving a call from the nursing home that my mom had a foul smell emitting from her and when they went to check things out they found a massively infected sore under her breast that had ruptured … sending her to the emergency room for treatment.  From there she was admitted, biopsies, iv antibiotics, etc.  Doctors kept telling me that all signs led them to believe cancer but to wait for biopsie reports to be sure.  They even went as far as running a CT scan as they feared it was possible that if cancer it may have spread to the brain (she also showed symptoms of facial paralysis while in the hospital).  After a week, reports came back stating it was only an abscess <sigh of relief –  but scan showed several previous mini-strokes which may be more of an explanation as to the dementia.  So tired ol’ me, trekking to the hospital daily … as well as dealing with my oldest daughters second episode of MRSA infection and fearing she would also have to be hospitalized for this (her husbands company was actually quarantined and waiting for infectious diseases to clear them at this time) … and mother in law in hospital for minor cataract surgery.  You should have seen me running from one hospital to another – in two different neighboring towns – one 15 miles west, one 10 miles east.   And now I have found my son has an odd *sore* on his arm that seems to do nothing but get larger, says it has been there for a few months.  He is fighting me on going to the doctor to have it checked out (family history of skin cancer).  It’s probably nothing, but at his young age (20) why put it off and let it become something. I guess the compounding issues throughout the summer have finally worn me out and I now feel like I am fighting the old depression symptoms again.  I didn’t even realize it, had it pointed out to me by a concerned friend … lack of interest in anything, not wanting to leave the house or do anything … no ambition, no energy, no enthusiasm, no desire.  I have dealt with this before though and will fight my way through it again.  I’m tough, I’ll win. On the weight front, things aren’t pretty … not horribly ugly either, just not as good as I’d like.  The last time I was on the scale (last week) I was still well below my weight watchers official goal, but 1 pound over my personal goal (or under, honestly can’t remember now so will go with the over and be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong).  I have suspicions that it might even be up from that today.  What I am choosing to eat is not bad, those good choices are still with me … it’s more the portion control thing going on, as well as recently dipping into the wine with my eldest in the afternoon. <g  Hey, I gotta enjoy something, right?  LOL  Clothing is fitting *ok*, but could be much better.  I think my only saving grace has been that I seem to be able to keep things together really well for 4 or 5 days, then totally out of whack for a few days before working back into things.  And exercise seems to have become a thing of the past.  Like I said, the mind just isn’t in a good place yet.  I think you said it in an old post I just read … that *want power* just isn’t there like it had been.  I need to find that again.  Not sure which needs to come first though, or if it goes hand in hand with that mental health stuff I’m working on. I’ll try to stick around more, but if I do become quiet or appear to disappear again … guess you know why.  Just give me a prod, or smack me upside the head – gently.  <g Joyce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was beginning to think we would have to send Lewis and Clark out looking for you on their way back from their west coast explorations. Hope all is well. I’m thinking NO – too high in fat.  In order for ground beef to be considered core it has to contain 7% or less of fat.  Most nutritional labels that I recall have this same number listed as the fat grams … or pretty darn close.  In looking at www.laurasleanbeef.com nutritional info for her 92% lean ground beef it states that one serving contains 160 calories and 9g of fat – this product would not be considered Core.   In comparison, the beef patties you purchased are more than twice the caloric content and nearly three times the fat content.  I am guessing the burgers must be pretty big, even if you cut one in half it wouldn’t meet core qualifications.   Joyce <yup, I’m still around and hope to touch base a bit more later this evening … or morning Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

Hi all, I bought these frozen sirloin burgers and I was wondering if they are Core foods? Heres the ingredients: beef, water, skim milk powder, salt & spice Here’s the nutritional info: Calories: 340 Fat: 26 Fiber: 0 9 Points Thanks a bunch, SPOONS

Response:

RL support group

Question:

I think when I first started reading this ng someone had asked about experiences with real-life support groups.  I just went to one yesterday. It was held at my oncologist’s office and led by a nurse educator.  There were 5 patients there including me and it lasted an hour and a half.  I was very glad I went.  I can’t say I learned anything specific, but the sharing of experiences made me feel very happy.  There will be another meeting in 2 weeks and I certainly hope everyone else comes back.  If I can get out of bed I’ll surely be there! Eva

Response:

Hi Eva.  Glad you had a good experience with the support group.  I’ve been to a couple of different support groups at various times in the last 5 years since diagnosis, but did not feel they were too helpful.  It was not because of the people there or the subject matter; I simply could not be consistent in attendance due to treatment schedules and would miss a lot of things in those 2-3 week periods when I would have to miss a meeting. I find online groups to be a lot more appropriate for my own needs.  But the bottom line is that we do what is best for our own recovery.  Any type of support situation is better than none.  A lot of research has shown that those cancer patients who are parrt of a support group of some kind generally are more tolerant of treatments and are more emotionally settled about their life situation.  I’m glad we all have each other no matter where we are, aren’t you? Janice A. Stage IV Metastatic Breast CA

Response:

I find online groups to be a lot more appropriate for my own needs.  But the bottom line is that we do what is best for our own recovery.  Any type of support situation is better than none.  A lot of research has shown that those cancer patients who are parrt of a support group of some kind generally are more tolerant of treatments and are more emotionally settled about their life situation.  I’m glad we all have each other no matter where we are, aren’t

you? Unquestionably! Eva

Response:

Birth control contributing to Lupus-like symptoms???

Question:

Hi all, Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of lupus-like symptoms? I know there are other drugs out there that can but I have never heard of birth control drugs doing this. However, right before my symptoms began I was switched to a new birth control called Yasmine and my husband has always wondered if my body just doesn’t like it! For those of you who do not know me – I have been having many lupus-like symptoms for over two years now — joint/muscle pain, debilitating fatigue (waxes and wanes), low grade fevers, mouth sores, frequent flushed look on my face, hives, various GI issues, Raynaud’s, and what I like to call a permanent "brain cloud!" (difficulty thinking). Most blood tests come back negative – some in the borderline range, but nothing "impressive". It has been frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, degenerative joint disease, etc… Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this? Thought it wouldn’t hurt to ask! Thanks! Stephanie

Response:

Oh yeah — I forgot one symptom – chronically swollen glands and lymphnodes. "Stephanie Townsend" <ler…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:229d6$415a2488$43653f35$23718@msgid.meganewsservers.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of > lupus-like symptoms? I know there are other drugs out there that can but I > have never heard of birth control drugs doing this. However, right before > my symptoms began I was switched to a new birth control called Yasmine and > my husband has always wondered if my body just doesn’t like it! For those > of you who do not know me – I have been having many lupus-like symptoms > for over two years now — joint/muscle pain, debilitating fatigue (waxes > and wanes), low grade fevers, mouth sores, frequent flushed look on my > face, hives, various GI issues, Raynaud’s, and what I like to call a > permanent "brain cloud!" (difficulty thinking). Most blood tests come back > negative – some in the borderline range, but nothing "impressive". It has > been frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, > degenerative joint disease, etc… > Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this? > Thought it wouldn’t hurt to ask! Thanks! > Stephanie

Response:

I know around my cycle, my lupus flares.  Pregnancy was my trigger and it is known that major hormone flucations can affect lupus. I tried the Nuva Ring to skip my period but it didn’t work…. so now I’m lazy and haven’t gone back to the dr. Nicole "Stephanie Townsend" <ler…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:229d6$415a2488$43653f35$23718@msgid.meganewsservers.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of > lupus-like symptoms? I know there are other drugs out there that can but I > have never heard of birth control drugs doing this. However, right before my > symptoms began I was switched to a new birth control called Yasmine and my > husband has always wondered if my body just doesn’t like it! For those of > you who do not know me – I have been having many lupus-like symptoms for > over two years now — joint/muscle pain, debilitating fatigue (waxes and > wanes), low grade fevers, mouth sores, frequent flushed look on my face, > hives, various GI issues, Raynaud’s, and what I like to call a permanent > "brain cloud!" (difficulty thinking). Most blood tests come back negative – > some in the borderline range, but nothing "impressive". It has been > frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, > degenerative joint disease, etc… > Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this? Thought > it wouldn’t hurt to ask! Thanks! > Stephanie

Response:

Stephanie Townsend wrote: > Wow! Aren’t you just a wealth of information? Thanks!

Copy and paste seems to work better (than typing) at the moment. I have a big painful bulge on my arm (where they operated). I did have a point to those two posts, but I cannot remember what it was Hugs J

Response:

"Andy" <a…@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> wrote in message > > I recently read that it had been "narrowed" down to well under 1,000 genes > > —

Hmmmmm….. indeed?….. well that isn’t saying too much then is it? ~ Shelagh

Response:

Shelagh wrote: > I know there is a genetic predisposition to the illness along with hormonal > involvment along with environmental influence…… but don’t know if the > research has since narrowed that ‘predisposition’ down to specific genes yet > or not!… J? do you know anymore on that? > from Shelagh

Not any more than Andy, Shelagh, but thanks for asking. If you’re thinking of gene therapy, if anything, that’s a very very very long way out. The only part "we" have control over (other than not having kids, which is not an option for most) is environmental. And i’ve not seen anything new or startling about that recently. I do watch other newsgroups and web pages I have 3 or 4 web pages collected that I haven’t had time to throughly look through. What I’ve been struck by (over the years) is posts that I’ve seen on the vet newsgroup and here where patients and their pets have sometimes had similar problems. So, in some cases (locations), environmental may be more of a factor than is realized.   I wish that they would study "clusters". (of people and animals) affected by autoimmune disorders. Disclaimer: I’m not an expert nor do I have anything concrete on that.  Just observations, over the years. Hugs to Shelagh. J

Response:

In article <CG17d.151717$%S.58544@pd7tw2no>, Shelagh <tidering…@shaw.ca> wrote >I know there is a genetic predisposition to the illness along with hormonal >involvment along with environmental influence…… but don’t know if the >research has since narrowed that ‘predisposition’ down to specific genes yet >or not!

I recently read that it had been "narrowed" down to well under 1,000 genes — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

No one in my family has autoimmune disease.  Well, my great aunt did and has been in remission for over 20 yrs. What’s interesting is…. my father in law remarried and a few years later, she got sick with fibro, lupus like activity.  I got married and got sick also. We both blame our husbands for making us sick.  LOL Nicole "Mair" <leg…@many.net> wrote in message

news:aLW6d.3270$JG2.432@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And Another Thing…. > Have they decided anything about lupus being hereditary?  My family is > rifled with autoimmune disorders, and my brother has lupus, as do I. Sound > like another familiar story? > Mair > "Stephanie Townsend" <ler…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:2c175$415c1074$40696453$31121@msgid.meganewsservers.com… > > "Mair" <leg…@many.net> wrote in message > > news:AQH6d.4386$nj.3224@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com… > >> Yes.  I was a perfectly fine and healthy individual (at least > >> physically), until I started taking birth control pills, at the age of > >> 19.  At that time I started having joint pains and fatigue that could not > >> be explained, and nothing found that the doctors could "treat." > >> Since that time I have never been the same.  Going off the BCP did not > >> really change things.  As I look back on it, I would have to say that I > >> already had a genetic propensity for lupus, and that the Pill just > >> brought it out. > > Hmmm… thanks for sharing Mair. Seems like an awfully familiar story – > > Mine! I guess I wonder because I know it is common for Lupus to come on in > > young women — about the time we are all going on BCP. So, the > > researcher/psychologist in me keeps saying "Correlation does not mean > > causation!" BUT it seems like too much of a coincidence at times. My docs > > keep denying that the BCP’s are to blame – but as I read up on it I am > > beginning to wonder. (And I haven’t seen a GYN in years to ask – my PCP > > does the exams for me) > >> Hindsight is great, isn’t it?  I wish my eyes were in the back of my > >> head! > > Don’t we all! Thanks Mair! > > Steph

Response:

I know there is a genetic predisposition to the illness along with hormonal involvment along with environmental influence…… but don’t know if the research has since narrowed that ‘predisposition’ down to specific genes yet or not!… J? do you know anymore on that? from Shelagh "Mair" <leg…@many.net> wrote in message

news:aLW6d.3270$JG2.432@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And Another Thing…. > Have they decided anything about lupus being hereditary?  My family is > rifled with autoimmune disorders, and my brother has lupus, as do I. > Sound like another familiar story? > Mair

Response:

DITTO! from Shelagh "Janet R" <ImDoublo…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:biV6d.11958$Qv5.7090@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > My lupus began around the age of 12, about the time my menses started. > I have never been able to take birth control pills.  Within 3 days of > starting any brand of pills I would become very ill, and by day 5 I > was jaundice.  Needless to say…BCP was a no go for me. > Janet R

Response:

And Another Thing…. Have they decided anything about lupus being hereditary?  My family is rifled with autoimmune disorders, and my brother has lupus, as do I.  Sound like another familiar story? Mair "Stephanie Townsend" <ler…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:2c175$415c1074$40696453$31121@msgid.meganewsservers.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mair" <leg…@many.net> wrote in message > news:AQH6d.4386$nj.3224@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com… >> Yes.  I was a perfectly fine and healthy individual (at least >> physically), until I started taking birth control pills, at the age of >> 19.  At that time I started having joint pains and fatigue that could not >> be explained, and nothing found that the doctors could "treat." >> Since that time I have never been the same.  Going off the BCP did not >> really change things.  As I look back on it, I would have to say that I >> already had a genetic propensity for lupus, and that the Pill just >> brought it out. > Hmmm… thanks for sharing Mair. Seems like an awfully familiar story – > Mine! I guess I wonder because I know it is common for Lupus to come on in > young women — about the time we are all going on BCP. So, the > researcher/psychologist in me keeps saying "Correlation does not mean > causation!" BUT it seems like too much of a coincidence at times. My docs > keep denying that the BCP’s are to blame – but as I read up on it I am > beginning to wonder. (And I haven’t seen a GYN in years to ask – my PCP > does the exams for me) >> Hindsight is great, isn’t it?  I wish my eyes were in the back of my >> head! > Don’t we all! Thanks Mair! > Steph

Response:

Hi, My lupus began around the age of 12, about the time my menses started. I have never been able to take birth control pills.  Within 3 days of starting any brand of pills I would become very ill, and by day 5 I was jaundice.  Needless to say…BCP was a no go for me. Janet R "Stephanie Townsend" <ler…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:a6605$415c0f3a$40696453$30838@msgid.meganewsservers.com… | Hi Nicole – | | I too flare the week before my period – everything is just amplified. I | wonder exactly what is happening in the body that causes the shift in | hormones to exacerbate symptoms? My husband and I are considering | pregnancy — I heard it could actually put a person in remission? I know you | said yours triggered it, but have you ever heard of the opposite? | | Steph | | "Nicole H" <crimsonshedemonREM…@hotmail.com> wrote in message | news:P6r6d.21220$OB2.5922@twister.socal.rr.com… | >I know around my cycle, my lupus flares.  Pregnancy was my trigger and it | >is | > known that major hormone flucations can affect lupus. | > I tried the Nuva Ring to skip my period but it didn’t work…. so now I’m | > lazy and haven’t gone back to the dr. | > Nicole | > "Stephanie Townsend" <ler…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message | > news:229d6$415a2488$43653f35$23718@msgid.meganewsservers.com… | >> Hi all, | >> | >> Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of | >> lupus-like symptoms? I know there are other drugs out there that can but | >> I | >> have never heard of birth control drugs doing this. However, right before | > my | >> symptoms began I was switched to a new birth control called Yasmine and | >> my | >> husband has always wondered if my body just doesn’t like it! For those of | >> you who do not know me – I have been having many lupus-like symptoms for | >> over two years now — joint/muscle pain, debilitating fatigue (waxes and | >> wanes), low grade fevers, mouth sores, frequent flushed look on my face, | >> hives, various GI issues, Raynaud’s, and what I like to call a permanent | >> "brain cloud!" (difficulty thinking). Most blood tests come back | > negative – | >> some in the borderline range, but nothing "impressive". It has been | >> frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, | >> degenerative joint disease, etc… | >> | >> Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this? | > Thought | >> it wouldn’t hurt to ask! Thanks! | >> | >> Stephanie | >> | >> | > | > | |

Response:

"Mair" <leg…@many.net> wrote in message

news:AQH6d.4386$nj.3224@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com… > Yes.  I was a perfectly fine and healthy individual (at least physically), > until I started taking birth control pills, at the age of 19.  At that > time I started having joint pains and fatigue that could not be explained, > and nothing found that the doctors could "treat." > Since that time I have never been the same.  Going off the BCP did not > really change things.  As I look back on it, I would have to say that I > already had a genetic propensity for lupus, and that the Pill just brought > it out.

Hmmm… thanks for sharing Mair. Seems like an awfully familiar story – Mine! I guess I wonder because I know it is common for Lupus to come on in young women — about the time we are all going on BCP. So, the researcher/psychologist in me keeps saying "Correlation does not mean causation!" BUT it seems like too much of a coincidence at times. My docs keep denying that the BCP’s are to blame – but as I read up on it I am beginning to wonder. (And I haven’t seen a GYN in years to ask – my PCP does the exams for me) > Hindsight is great, isn’t it?  I wish my eyes were in the back of my head!

Don’t we all! Thanks Mair! Steph

Response:

Wow! Aren’t you just a wealth of information? Thanks! "J" <lea…@example.net> wrote in message

news:415B502A.9B4D95A9@execulink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stephanie Townsend wrote: >> Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of >> lupus-like symptoms?[] It has been >> frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, >> degenerative joint disease, etc… >> Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this? > http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk/faqshets/faqs11.htm > The role of sex hormones in lupus is suggested by observations showing > that > about ten times as many women as men have lupus. The evidence suggests > that > hormones can exert an important influence en the immune system and, in > particular, that the female hormone oestrogen can affect the development > of > lupus. Some studies have suggested that there are differences in the way > that > sex hormones are chemically changed in lupus patients. Males and females > with > lupus have increased amounts of 16-hydroxylated oestrogens, and female, > but not > male, lupus patients have increased oestriol. The 16-hydroxylated > compounds are > the ones which can interact with cells of the immune system and which may > be > important in lupus. Levels of these compounds can be increased by talking > the > oral contraceptive pills containing oestrogen. These contraceptive pills > have > been reported to trigger the start of lupus or to cause it to have greater > impact on some female patients.[] > J

Response:

Hi Nicole – I too flare the week before my period – everything is just amplified. I wonder exactly what is happening in the body that causes the shift in hormones to exacerbate symptoms? My husband and I are considering pregnancy — I heard it could actually put a person in remission? I know you said yours triggered it, but have you ever heard of the opposite? Steph "Nicole H" <crimsonshedemonREM…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:P6r6d.21220$OB2.5922@twister.socal.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I know around my cycle, my lupus flares.  Pregnancy was my trigger and it >is > known that major hormone flucations can affect lupus. > I tried the Nuva Ring to skip my period but it didn’t work…. so now I’m > lazy and haven’t gone back to the dr. > Nicole > "Stephanie Townsend" <ler…@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:229d6$415a2488$43653f35$23718@msgid.meganewsservers.com… >> Hi all, >> Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of >> lupus-like symptoms? I know there are other drugs out there that can but >> I >> have never heard of birth control drugs doing this. However, right before > my >> symptoms began I was switched to a new birth control called Yasmine and >> my >> husband has always wondered if my body just doesn’t like it! For those of >> you who do not know me – I have been having many lupus-like symptoms for >> over two years now — joint/muscle pain, debilitating fatigue (waxes and >> wanes), low grade fevers, mouth sores, frequent flushed look on my face, >> hives, various GI issues, Raynaud’s, and what I like to call a permanent >> "brain cloud!" (difficulty thinking). Most blood tests come back > negative – >> some in the borderline range, but nothing "impressive". It has been >> frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, >> degenerative joint disease, etc… >> Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this? > Thought >> it wouldn’t hurt to ask! Thanks! >> Stephanie

Response:

Stephanie Townsend wrote: > Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of > lupus-like symptoms?[] It has been > frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, > degenerative joint disease, etc… > Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this?

http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk/faqshets/faqs11.htm The role of sex hormones in lupus is suggested by observations showing that about ten times as many women as men have lupus. The evidence suggests that hormones can exert an important influence en the immune system and, in particular, that the female hormone oestrogen can affect the development of lupus. Some studies have suggested that there are differences in the way that sex hormones are chemically changed in lupus patients. Males and females with lupus have increased amounts of 16-hydroxylated oestrogens, and female, but not male, lupus patients have increased oestriol. The 16-hydroxylated compounds are the ones which can interact with cells of the immune system and which may be important in lupus. Levels of these compounds can be increased by talking the oral contraceptive pills containing oestrogen. These contraceptive pills have been reported to trigger the start of lupus or to cause it to have greater impact on some female patients.[] J

Response:

J wrote: > Stephanie Townsend wrote: > > Has anyone ever heard of birth control drugs contributing to the onset of > > lupus-like symptoms?[] It has been > > frequently called a "low-grade lupus" (whatever that means!), fibro, > > degenerative joint disease, etc… > > Anyone ever read of meds messing with hormones causing any of this?

Yasmin http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2217.html Yasmin, the most recent low-dose birth control pill to enter the market, was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in May 2001 and is available in the United States. It is 99 percent effective in preventing pregnancy when used correctly, and works in the same way as other combination birth control pills. Each pill pack consists of 21 pills that contain the same amount of estrogen and progestin, to be taken one per day for three weeks, followed by seven placebo pills that are taken throughout the week, in order for a woman to get her period. Yasmin is the only birth control pill to contain the synthetic progestin known as drospirenone

What annoys me

Question:

In article <BD6C836A.20A44%skle…@yahoo.co.uk>, skle…@yahoo.co.uk says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jim Summers87’s post: > >> So how many flaws do you have, Jim? > > I’m very pale skinned and 6 feet tall, my back kind of hunches over when I > > walk. I have long feminine fingers like a girl and soft hands. > Do you hunch naturally because you’re trying to compensate for being tall, > or is this something you can’t change (even if you wanted to)? Some people > walk and talk so well that it’s beautiful to encounter them, but the rest of > us sad remnants walk and talk any old how we can scrape together. My friend > at college used to laugh at the way I walked because I seemed to bob up and > down more than she did. I’m very pale too, I used to think this was a > problem until I saw the stats for skin cancer… those tanned people are > constantly putting themselves as risk for that toasted look.

unless it is some bone deformity, that can be cured through weight training. I never go out in the sun either. Never did that much. Didn’t toast in tanning beds as I couldn’t afford it. Now I am reaping the rewards of avoiding the sun by looking many years younger while many people my age look older than they are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Would you rate those flaws as being severe? … or moderate? … or > >> negligible? > > Apparently most women don’t think I’m masculine enough even though I have been > > hit on in the past. But in general, my look is not the usual "hunk" look that > > seems to be popular right now.. > >> What sorts of flaws would you be willing to tolerate in women? > > I usually value a woman’s hair and face more than anything. I love women with > > dark brown or black hair and they should act kind of young and girlish. I’m > > madly in love with this Iranian girl right now and I haven’t even really > > noticed her body at all. I’m not a person who cares much about breast size, it > > doesn’t matter to me. Small breasts are fine….Her hair is gorgeous and she > > has a cute smile and that’s mostly what I focus on. > I hope it works out for you both.

– I promise to spank the plank daily.

Response:

In article <20040914010828.10549.00000…@mb-m05.aol.com>, jimsummers87 @aol.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Why not? > >Do you mean you wouldn’t be allowed, or you would be afraid to? >   He wouldn’t be allowed to. Any guy who is considered less than average by > women would be laughed at if he entered a very competitive/critical social > opposite sex setting. >    I can remember hiding in my room away from women when I was in my late teens > and early 20’s because I just knew that I didn’t have the look that women > wanted. I was filled with intense shame which later developed into hatred of > women because it wasn’t fair for them to expect me to be perfect.

nonsense more nonsense. — I promise to spank the plank daily.

Response:

"Phil" <p…@myaddress.com> wrote in news:ci68i8$6cu$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk: > "JayCee" <jc38…@nospamhere.com> wrote in message > news:414621B5.D1C667B6@nospamhere.com… >> Little Monster wrote: >> Another LOSER who settles for fat nasty pigs. Are you really that >> ugly, or > do you >> just have no self-respect? You and Robin Catfish should hook up and >> go out "hogging" to find some ugly fat nasty mingers and slappers to >> fuck. > You complain about women not wanting below average guys, well whats > wrong with guys wanting below average women?

Below-average or above-average in % of body fat? — "Finally, an excuse to drink my own urine."    –It Lives By Night.

Response:

>So how many flaws do you have, Jim?

  I’m very pale skinned and 6 feet tall, my back kind of hunches over when I walk. I have long feminine fingers like a girl and soft hands. >Would you rate those flaws as being severe? … or moderate? … or >negligible?

  Apparently most women don’t think I’m masculine enough even though I have been hit on in the past. But in general, my look is not the usual "hunk" look that seems to be popular right now.. >What sorts of flaws would you be willing to tolerate in women?

   I usually value a woman’s hair and face more than anything. I love women with dark brown or black hair and they should act kind of young and girlish. I’m madly in love with this Iranian girl right now and I haven’t even really noticed her body at all. I’m not a person who cares much about breast size, it doesn’t matter to me. Small breasts are fine….Her hair is gorgeous and she has a cute smile and that’s mostly what I focus on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->What sorts of virtues would you want?

Response:

"JayCee" <jc38…@nospamhere.com> wrote in message

news:414621B5.D1C667B6@nospamhere.com… > Little Monster wrote: > Another LOSER who settles for fat nasty pigs. Are you really that ugly, or do you > just have no self-respect? You and Robin Catfish should hook up and go out > "hogging" to find some ugly fat nasty mingers and slappers to fuck.

You complain about women not wanting below average guys, well whats wrong with guys wanting below average women?

Response:

"Jim Summers87" <jimsummer…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040914010828.10549.00000824@mb-m05.aol.com… >   He wouldn’t be allowed to. Any guy who is considered less than average by > women would be laughed at if he entered a very competitive/critical social > opposite sex setting.

That’s not the same as not being allowed to. Not being allowed is being stopped at the door or being physically thrown out. Being shunned by your peers is a different matter, but equally distressing I’m sure. >    I can remember hiding in my room away from women when I was in my late teens > and early 20’s because I just knew that I didn’t have the look that women > wanted. I was filled with intense shame which later developed into hatred of > women because it wasn’t fair for them to expect me to be perfect.

I still feel ashamed to look a woman in the eye when walking down the street. I haven’t been to a club in years and probably wouldn’t like to.

Response:

Jim Summers87’s post: >> Why not? >> Do you mean you wouldn’t be allowed, or you would be afraid to? > He wouldn’t be allowed to. Any guy who is considered less than average by > women would be laughed at if he entered a very competitive/critical social > opposite sex setting. > I can remember hiding in my room away from women when I was in my late teens > and early 20’s because I just knew that I didn’t have the look that women > wanted. I was filled with intense shame which later developed into hatred of > women because it wasn’t fair for them to expect me to be perfect.

:v( That’s sad. I know how that feels.

Response:

Jim Summers87’s post: >> So how many flaws do you have, Jim? > I’m very pale skinned and 6 feet tall, my back kind of hunches over when I > walk. I have long feminine fingers like a girl and soft hands.

Do you hunch naturally because you’re trying to compensate for being tall, or is this something you can’t change (even if you wanted to)? Some people walk and talk so well that it’s beautiful to encounter them, but the rest of us sad remnants walk and talk any old how we can scrape together. My friend at college used to laugh at the way I walked because I seemed to bob up and down more than she did. I’m very pale too, I used to think this was a problem until I saw the stats for skin cancer… those tanned people are constantly putting themselves as risk for that toasted look. >> Would you rate those flaws as being severe? … or moderate? … or >> negligible? > Apparently most women don’t think I’m masculine enough even though I have been > hit on in the past. But in general, my look is not the usual "hunk" look that > seems to be popular right now.. >> What sorts of flaws would you be willing to tolerate in women? > I usually value a woman’s hair and face more than anything. I love women with > dark brown or black hair and they should act kind of young and girlish. I’m > madly in love with this Iranian girl right now and I haven’t even really > noticed her body at all. I’m not a person who cares much about breast size, it > doesn’t matter to me. Small breasts are fine….Her hair is gorgeous and she > has a cute smile and that’s mostly what I focus on.

I hope it works out for you both.

Response:

kitzneg…@aol.com (kitznegari thinks it has wings) wrote in news:20040914005436.18151.00003077@mb-m03.aol.com: > yeah it sucks.  GET OVER IT. > – k i t z – > can’t sleep, the maitre d will bite me… > can’t sleep, the maitre d will bite me… > can’t sleep, the maitre d will bite me… > http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitznegari

Is this really a part of you? All of this… ASS.

Response:

>Why not? >Do you mean you wouldn’t be allowed, or you would be afraid to?

  He wouldn’t be allowed to. Any guy who is considered less than average by women would be laughed at if he entered a very competitive/critical social opposite sex setting.    I can remember hiding in my room away from women when I was in my late teens and early 20’s because I just knew that I didn’t have the look that women wanted. I was filled with intense shame which later developed into hatred of women because it wasn’t fair for them to expect me to be perfect.

Response:

>Who or what is preventing you from going to a club?

  They would insult him or laugh at him. You obviously don’t understand how hateful women are toward "imperfect" men. >Who or what can stop you from talking to someone that you want to talk >to (particularly in a club)?

   Maybe he has feelings and doesn’t enjoy being laughed at??? Did you ever consider that?

Response:

On 14 Sep 2004 05:01:25 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club, and I wouldn’t even be >>allowed to talk to a girl like HER, let alone a thin, relatively attractive >>one. And it’s the exact same "laws" that allow her to have a perfectly >>normal, active social life are the same ones that utterly repress my ability >>to do the same. >>This really has to be set aright. There has to be "social equality" so that >>young men who are less than perfect can experience the same freedom and >>opportunites that women take for granted. These women have the opportunity >>to SHARE this by accomodating such men, but they refuse to. This is why I >>hate them so much. > Yes, this is true. I’m really disgusted at women’s greed in what physical >appearances they expect men to have to even be considered WORTHY of speaking to >them. >  The "perfect" guys who do have the look that women LOVE, these guys are >walking around with 3 or 4 women chasing them. >  The entire dating section of the MIDDLE/Average looking women has just >disappeared and they are out chasing the top hunks. The LOWER ranked women (the >fat girls, the ugly girls), they are with "average" guys. >   If you are a guy who is deemed less than average (and what is called >"average" by women now would have been considered HUNKS/ Good-Looking 20 years >ago), you just don’t EXIST in this society. You are permanently invisible. >   So here’s what we’ve got right now: >Beautiful, pretty, or even "cute" women want perfect hunks >Average women want almost perfect hunks (he only has 1 flaw but average women >have their hearts set on getting as close to the line of Mr.Perfect as they can >find) >LOWER ranked women want average guys (these guys are not average in my mind, in >fact many of them would have been considered "cute" or "handsome" 20 years >ago)… >  Now if we have a society in which the LOWEST of the LOW women consider >themselves ENTITLED to "Average" men??? WHAT THE HELL??? That is messed >up!!!!!!!! >   It is so disturbing that from a biological standpoint/evolution, it doesn’t >even remotely promote the natural order anymore. >   Darkfalz, you were right when you said that men tolerate multiple appearance >flaws in a woman as long as she has one or 2 good features…nice hair, >friendly, etc.. >   However, it only takes one flaw for a man to not be considered perfect by >women. >   2 flaws in a man is called "Average" >   2 or more "flaws" is deemed "Ugly" >   Women today have become like these mad scientists trying to construct the >perfect creation… >   Men just want fun experiences and some happiness in life. This "perfect" >beauty stuff doesn’t matter to 90% of guys when they are looking for >girlfriends.

So how many flaws do you have, Jim? Would you rate those flaws as being severe? … or moderate? … or negligible? What sorts of flaws would you be willing to tolerate in women? What sorts of virtues would you want? Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/ —————————————————– In my experience, there is no excuse for thinking positively.                                           – ASStagon

Response:

I was returning a video tonight, and as I was doing so a guy and a girl walked past. The guy was average height, thin, decent looks. The girl was short, below average looks and VERY VERY fat. She would have been more than 3x wider than he was. Now, they probably weren’t a couple but just the fact they were friends is annoying enough. What’s more, she was talking about something that happened IN A CLUB, so she’s obviously enjoys a "normal" social life. Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club, and I wouldn’t even be allowed to talk to a girl like HER, let alone a thin, relatively attractive one. And it’s the exact same "laws" that allow her to have a perfectly normal, active social life are the same ones that utterly repress my ability to do the same. This really has to be set aright. There has to be "social equality" so that young men who are less than perfect can experience the same freedom and opportunites that women take for granted. These women have the opportunity to SHARE this by accomodating such men, but they refuse to. This is why I hate them so much.

Response:

"Darkfalz" <darkfalz.use…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:2qlnqjF1168evU1@uni-berlin.de… > I was returning a video tonight, and as I was doing so a guy and a girl > walked past. > The guy was average height, thin, decent looks. The girl was short, below > average looks and VERY VERY fat. She would have been more than 3x wider than > he was. > Now, they probably weren’t a couple but just the fact they were friends is > annoying enough. What’s more, she was talking about something that happened > IN A CLUB, so she’s obviously enjoys a "normal" social life. > Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club…

Have you been blacklisted or something?  How could anyone stop you entering a club unless it’s a rule like not being allowed in with trainers or jeans, or you have beaten someone up in the past and got permanently barred.

Response:

"Darkfalz" <darkfalz.use…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:2qlnqjF1168evU1@uni-berlin.de… > Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club.

Why not? Do you mean you wouldn’t be allowed, or you would be afraid to?

Response:

Darkfalz wrote: > I was returning a video tonight, and as I was doing so a guy and a girl > walked past. > The guy was average height, thin, decent looks. The girl was short, below > average looks and VERY VERY fat. She would have been more than 3x wider than > he was. > Now, they probably weren’t a couple but just the fact they were friends is > annoying enough. What’s more, she was talking about something that happened > IN A CLUB, so she’s obviously enjoys a "normal" social life. > Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club,

Who or what is preventing you from going to a club? > and I wouldn’t even be > allowed to talk to a girl like HER, let alone a thin, relatively attractive

Who or what can stop you from talking to someone that you want to talk to (particularly in a club)? — .ske

Response:

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:06:37 +1000, the world was enlightented by Darkfalz, unto whom the words are attributed: > I was returning a video tonight, and as I was doing so a guy and a girl > walked past.

They do that here too.  Strange, that… > The guy was average height, thin, decent looks. The girl was short, below > average looks and VERY VERY fat. She would have been more than 3x wider than > he was.

Mmmmm, cute girl!  More cushion for the pushin!  Short – even better – the good bits are closer together (her feet and mind, of course!) > Now, they probably weren’t a couple but just the fact they were friends is > annoying enough. What’s more, she was talking about something that happened > IN A CLUB, so she’s obviously enjoys a "normal" social life. > Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club, and I wouldn’t even be

Why?  Do the bouncers make threatening noises at you or something? > allowed to talk to a girl like HER, let alone a thin, relatively > attractive one. And it’s the exact same "laws" that allow her to have a

What laws?  Why wouldn’t you be allowed? > perfectly normal, active social life are the same ones that utterly > repress my ability to do the same.

Pretty strange, down under, then. > This really has to be set aright. There has to be "social equality" so > that young men who are less than perfect can experience the same freedom > and opportunites that women take for granted. These women have the > opportunity to SHARE this by accomodating such men, but they refuse to. > This is why I hate them so much.

I think you have perhaps just a slightly biased view there, DF.  Or you really do live in a very strange country…  Whichever… Mosnter — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Darkfalz" <darkfalz.use…@gmail.com> wrote in message <news:2qlnqjF1168evU1@uni-berlin.de>… > I was returning a video tonight, and as I was doing so a guy and a girl > walked past. > The guy was average height, thin, decent looks. The girl was short, below > average looks and VERY VERY fat. She would have been more than 3x wider than > he was. > Now, they probably weren’t a couple but just the fact they were friends is > annoying enough. What’s more, she was talking about something that happened > IN A CLUB, so she’s obviously enjoys a "normal" social life. > Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club, and I wouldn’t even be > allowed to talk to a girl like HER, let alone a thin, relatively attractive > one. And it’s the exact same "laws" that allow her to have a perfectly > normal, active social life are the same ones that utterly repress my ability > to do the same. > This really has to be set aright. There has to be "social equality" so that > young men who are less than perfect can experience the same freedom and > opportunites that women take for granted. These women have the opportunity > to SHARE this by accomodating such men, but they refuse to. This is why I > hate them so much.

What "laws" are you talking about?  And why can’t you attend clubs? And why can’t anyone enjoy a "normal" social life?  Please explain.

Response:

"Phil" <p…@myaddress.com> wrote in message <news:ci4b5b$e40$1@ucsnew1.ncl.ac.uk>… > "Darkfalz" <darkfalz.use…@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:2qlnqjF1168evU1@uni-berlin.de… > > Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club. > Why not? > Do you mean you wouldn’t be allowed, or you would be afraid to?

He must get this idea from watching American television shows("that 70’s show" and "night at the Roxbory" come to mind)

Response:

"Darkfalz" <darkfalz.use…@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:2qlnqjF1168evU1@uni-berlin.de… > I was returning a video tonight, and as I was doing so a guy and a girl > walked past. > The guy was average height, thin, decent looks. The girl was short, below > average looks and VERY VERY fat. She would have been more than 3x wider than > he was.

So the girl was a plain Jane whale then? > Now, they probably weren’t a couple but just the fact they were friends is > annoying enough. What’s more, she was talking about something that happened > IN A CLUB, so she’s obviously enjoys a "normal" social life.

Ugly fat people have social lives? The bastards. > Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club, and I wouldn’t even be > allowed to talk to a girl like HER, let alone a thin, relatively attractive > one. And it’s the exact same "laws" that allow her to have a perfectly > normal, active social life are the same ones that utterly repress my ability > to do the same.

Why are you not allowed to talk to ugly fat women? It’s terrible how people judging you is holding you back. > This really has to be set aright. There has to be "social equality" so that > young men who are less than perfect can experience the same freedom and > opportunites that women take for granted. These women have the opportunity > to SHARE this by accomodating such men, but they refuse to. This is why I > hate them so much.

– Mook (remove antispam from addy)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Little Monster wrote: > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:06:37 +1000, the world was enlightented by > Darkfalz, unto whom the words are attributed: > > I was returning a video tonight, and as I was doing so a guy and a girl > > walked past. > They do that here too.  Strange, that… > > The guy was average height, thin, decent looks. The girl was short, below > > average looks and VERY VERY fat. She would have been more than 3x wider than > > he was. > Mmmmm, cute girl!  More cushion for the pushin!  Short – even better – the > good bits are closer together (her feet and mind, of course!)

Another LOSER who settles for fat nasty pigs. Are you really that ugly, or do you just have no self-respect? You and Robin Catfish should hook up and go out "hogging" to find some ugly fat nasty mingers and slappers to fuck.

Response:

If you don’t understand, you don’t want to understand because it is so obvious. What i hate is couples walking down the street side by side and expecting me to get off the sidewalk or path. It never fails. I keep walking on sidewalk and they are shocked when i brush against them.

Response:

In article <68cd531b67889313eb8d040cdf798bd0 @localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>, kitz_lost_our_gall…@yahoo.com says… > If you don’t understand, you don’t want to understand because it is so > obvious. > What i hate is couples walking down the street side by side and expecting > me to get off the sidewalk or path. It never fails. I keep walking on > sidewalk and they are shocked when i brush against them.

hell all kids of people do that to me anyway. — I promise to spank the plank daily.

Response:

yeah it sucks.  GET OVER IT. – k i t z – can’t sleep, the maitre d will bite me… can’t sleep, the maitre d will bite me… can’t sleep, the maitre d will bite me… http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitznegari

Response:

>Now, I wouldn’t be allowed to set foot in a club, and I wouldn’t even be >allowed to talk to a girl like HER, let alone a thin, relatively attractive >one. And it’s the exact same "laws" that allow her to have a perfectly >normal, active social life are the same ones that utterly repress my ability >to do the same. >This really has to be set aright. There has to be "social equality" so that >young men who are less than perfect can experience the same freedom and >opportunites that women take for granted. These women have the opportunity >to SHARE this by accomodating such men, but they refuse to. This is why I >hate them so much.

 Yes, this is true. I’m really disgusted at women’s greed in what physical appearances they expect men to have to even be considered WORTHY of speaking to them.   The "perfect" guys who do have the look that women LOVE, these guys are walking around with 3 or 4 women chasing them.   The entire dating section of the MIDDLE/Average looking women has just disappeared and they are out chasing the top hunks. The LOWER ranked women (the fat girls, the ugly girls), they are with "average" guys.    If you are a guy who is deemed less than average (and what is called "average" by women now would have been considered HUNKS/ Good-Looking 20 years ago), you just don’t EXIST in this society. You are permanently invisible.    So here’s what we’ve got right now: Beautiful, pretty, or even "cute" women want perfect hunks Average women want almost perfect hunks (he only has 1 flaw but average women have their hearts set on getting as close to the line of Mr.Perfect as they can find) LOWER ranked women want average guys (these guys are not average in my mind, in fact many of them would have been considered "cute" or "handsome" 20 years ago)…   Now if we have a society in which the LOWEST of the LOW women consider themselves ENTITLED to "Average" men??? WHAT THE HELL??? That is messed up!!!!!!!!    It is so disturbing that from a biological standpoint/evolution, it doesn’t even remotely promote the natural order anymore.    Darkfalz, you were right when you said that men tolerate multiple appearance flaws in a woman as long as she has one or 2 good features…nice hair, friendly, etc..    However, it only takes one flaw for a man to not be considered perfect by women.    2 flaws in a man is called "Average"    2 or more "flaws" is deemed "Ugly"    Women today have become like these mad scientists trying to construct the perfect creation…    Men just want fun experiences and some happiness in life. This "perfect" beauty stuff doesn’t matter to 90% of guys when they are looking for girlfriends.

Response: